Well that is true....but at least it is only a thread about JVG....which makes it appropriate...... Anyway, I guess I just have a hard time understanding the loyalty that JVG has created, as a fan of the Rockets, it seems he failed here, and I don't get why so many people think he is the shiznitz. Maybe that is why it bugs me so much, cause all I care about is the Rockets, nothing more...whatever is best for them..... DD
No need for that durvasa, I always like your posts whether I agree with them or not. And this is all a matter of opinion anyway. DD
I'll speak for myself. When you say JVG "failed" -- that means the team didn't meet expectations. Now, you being an energized, optimistic fan of the team, I think your expectations are pretty high. Maybe unrealistically so. But that's ok, the fans are supposed to be amped up about the season. When the Rocket never advance past the first round, it's a crushing disappointment. But from my perspective, I see that the Western conference is extremely competitive, and there has been a talent gap between us and the other elite teams. I think winning 50+ games in the West and playing competitively against a very good team in the playoffs -- even if its a loss -- shouldn't be considered a "failure". Success isn't the right word for it, either. There aren't many people here who were saying that JVG needed to be brought back and it would be a big mistake not to do that. Most thought he should be fired, and the rest of us were essentially ambivalent. So, when you claim this board is filled with rabid JVG apologists, I don't get that at all. That strikes me as a very skewed perspective. I'll defend certain decisions JVG made (e.g. how he handled Spanoulis and Wells), and when some jokers say he outright sucked I will definitely take exception to that. I mean, that's just a slap in the face of someone who worked harder than anyone the last 4 years to improve this team. I appreciate the work JVG put in, and I'm disappointed (as I'm sure he is) that the team couldn't perform better under his watch. I think he did a good job for us, but the playoffs results just weren't there.
I came back to this thread late-I have not seen you lately on here- great to see you back- do not stay away so long.
Couldn't the same be said about Vspan. Why is there so much loyalty to him when his time here should be considered a failure far more then JVG. You can make the argument that Vspan didnt get enough minutes, but do you honestly believe he dominated practice and still was held out. Im sure some player would have spoken up if Vspan was killing them on the practice floor all season. Remember he was the first person Vspan promoted to game minutes after Snyder went down. And he struggled mightily in all but one game he played, and at that time was taken back out of the rotation. Like it was said, you can question JVG's ability to coach, as well as interact with media and players. But his work ethic and how much he cared about improving the Rockets was clear. Far more so then Vspan, who bailed after one rough season. Im not bashing Vspan for the decision he made. If he was truly that unhappy in the US and could live the life he can in Greece, so be it. Im just saying Rocket fans should respect what JVG gave to the team, far more then what Vspan gave.
Exactly. WE had the coaching, but didn't have the talent. That's why Morey's done his job. JVG had a bunch of 3rd stringers and still managed to put forth the 4th best team in the league. Thanks for proving my point.
Look, how the Rockets do this season will be on the players solely. If we struggle, or fail to make it out of round 1, or don't even make the playoffs, I'm not going to be the one to blame Adelman. I know he's a good coach. Look at his track record. I know JVG is a good coach, look at his track record. Sometimes a coach can do only so much, and your best players/leaders need to step it up in crunch time. THat's why from now on, whenever something goes wrong with the Rockets, I'm blaming TMac, and him solely. Not Yao, not Francis, not Morey, but TMac. The guy talks smack to the media and then all of a sudden gets tired when it matters most. I still blame him for losing us games 3 and 4 in 05 vs Dallas and for losing us Games 6 and 7 vs Utah. Lebron, Kobe, MJ, they all protected their coaches and make them seem like some kind of legends, when really, these players have a right to be coined the term legend. Mike Brown's offense is even worse than JVG's, but Lebron, unlike TMac has the ability to score the last 30 points for his team in a double OT game on the road. Kobe has the ability to put up 81. MJ has the ability to drop 30 something before hitting the deathbed. TMac? He's a 2nd Round Virgin, that's what he'd be labeled as if he were to retire today, which by the way he still talks about like he's some kind of old man.
I don't know if you're purposely being over the top here, but I think its unfair to pin everything on T-Mac like that. How can you blame him for not being able to replicated historical performances? Just as its wrong to put all the blame on the coach, its also wrong to put all the blame on a single player. McGrady may be flawed, but he's still (in my view) the most valuable player on the team.
The defense of Van Gundy stems from my dislike of irrational reactionaries. OR95, durvasa and I are being fair to a guy who puts his heart into coaching the team and made the team better. Flaws? Sure, I am not calling him the perfect hall of fame coach, but I can be a fan of a guy who puts his heart into helping my team win even if he has flaws. Unlike some people, I don't just ride the dicks of players who won titles for the team. I would gladly ride the dicks of guys who tried their best but failed-- like Barkley, Willis, Yao, Hayes, etc. OR95 and durvasa would do the same.
And that's where I think our problem lies. I don't think he's the guy to lead any team to the promise land, just like Dirk. Dirk and TMac are fabulous talents, but they are not leaders, and they have yet to prove in their careers that they can handle being "the man" successfully. Tracy is lucky he has Yao, and now Francis and Mike James. But if we're going to be leaning on Tracy to come through when we need him most, I wouldn't put my money in his bag.
I have been through a wide range of opinion about Van Gundy - much as you would about any complex personality. No one is all good or all bad. I never wanted to hire him. Made up my mind to support him for the greater good of the team. I am a Rocket team fan. In Dec- Jan of '05- when the team gelled and the offense run by Sura and T Mac became competitive- it was special. For a short time that team could play while healthy. I felt Van Gundy got too much credit for that success in the offense. There were some zealots here that crowed Van Gundy credit from the rafters In the Utah series - I feel Van Gundy did not do enough to get the players prepared in two Utah games and the last game 7. Our team came out so flat in the 3rd Quarter. We could have an should have won at least one of those games. In the time of the Feb All Star game when Van Gundy delayed signing an extension- I really believed he would get a 3 year extension- still surprised he chose not to. I had returned to a mode of acceptance toward him- never hated him- grew to really respect his consistency. I supported his signing an extension. Anyway - he made that choice and he is gone- we can move on.
It's dangerous to label a guy before his career has ended. If we win a championship or two in the next few years, T-Mac may be hailed as one of the greatest players in NBA. A lot of this "winner" "loser" labels are done in hindsight, imo.
Why would you 'talk championship' when you're rebuilding? Do you think Seattle is talking championship this year? I must have missed the championship talk prior to Yao's second season. Either that, or if anyone was actually talking about it, I laughed it off for the joke that it obviously was. A legit shot at a championship during his first season? Are you actually being serious? The only time there was ever a 'legit shot' at a championship (if there ever has been) was after the trade for McGrady. Which again, you claim JVG had nothing to do with. So far I fail to see what winning culture was brought in other than some tough guy "no excuses" talk through the media.
The West was as or more competitive before: 45-37 in '01 = no playoffs. 45-37 in '04 = 7th seed. The West was better then top to bottom.
7 50 win seasons in the history of the rockets...2 in the last 4 years, 4 straight lottery years prior to jvg coming...3 of 4 years in the playoffs...left us with the best defensive team and best defensive rebounding team in the league, the 2nd best 3 point shooting team and now adelman with the roster upgrades will take them the rest of the way.
the extension was offered in march...he told morey he didnt feel like it was the right time to sign an extension because it would send the wrong message to the players. they agreed to get it done after the season and then alexander and morey reneged a little bit. anyway...it doesnt matter now...lets all jump on the adelman bandwagon and support him and this great team morey has put together
And 3 big old first round exits. Adelman would have gotten more out of last years team and certainly will out of this years team. DD
just the facts dadakota vs. your biased speculation...and i would hope he would get more out of this years team...we are alot better and the west is alot worse...clips without brand, portland without randolph and oden, seattle without lewis and allen, minnesota without garnett and james, sac without talent, and memphis without a bunch of things... your blind spot about the coaching is just not right...but whatever
DennisCD, I know you liked JVG and what he brought to the table, and you know I thought he was a big failure. If you want the facts, just read the thread....2 whole wins more than Rudy T in Yao's 2nd year, but more importantly he had 3 first round exits....two of them where the team was up 2-0. JVG failed as a Rockets coach, and that is an undisputable fact. Whether you like it or not. DD
