JVG - Stay or GO? New poll after emotions are quieted

More than Hard-Work?? what more do you expect out of a coach who has Given you one of the leagues best record? Our record ( Do not include the injury year ) ever since JVG has been here is really incredible.. When do you start to put blame on the players than on the coach?

And to answer your question why do I watch these guys ... It's because I'm a Rockets fan through thick and thin...And why do I make the comments that I make? Well because I'm also a Basketball Fan and I'm not blind to see where we stand against the elite teams, the changing rules, the game of yesteryear(is that a word) in comparison to the games of today.

 

apparently you dont. How could you? when hayes/howard make up your PF position and rafer/lucas/head make up your pg rotation how could you not win a championship?

 

How much hope did people have in Rudy before he actually did it?

The 3 playoff series the Roxs have played have been just about the toughest match ups they could possibly face, it's not as if they lost to cupcake teams.

This team needs some retooling, PG and PF help and I'm waiting to see what happens during the offseason.

 

new coach means jack **** if we dont make some serious improvements in player personnel.

IF JVG is let go, however, i wouldn't mind adleman.

 

I think he WILL go either due to being fired or due to not wanting to deal with the lack of personnel control any more. But I don't think the coach is the primary problem as much as the roster.

I certainly don't think Rudy is a good candidate. People seem to forget that his performance over his last 6 years was worse than Jeff's 4 years here. He was the right coach for the team when we won it all, but the drafting of Sam Cassel and Robert Horry along with Dream moving his game to MVP level had alot to do with those wins too. Rudy's record post 1997 was below average and the roster developement over that stretch was equally bad.

I would be fine with Adelman or Larry Brown. Del Harris failed to win a title with Shaq and Kobe, and TMac and Yao are no Shaq and Kobe.

No matter what coach we have I don't really expect a radically different offense or fast breaking team as long as Yao is the center piece.

 

I am going to give DD my JVG rant

Things I don't like- former knick coach, to extreme on details at times, too honest at times, should keep it to himself more.

Things I like-

1. Saw that Yao was going to be a good post player offensively and stayed the course on his low post game... alot of people were wanting Yao out on the perimeter because of his shooting touch, that is a big mistake. I credit Van Gundy with making Yao work on the post game and stay away from getting away from the basket.
2. Saw Yao's defensive liabilities and put a nice rotation defense in place to reinforce the paint in half court. And at the same time he has helped Yao improve his footwork alot on the high screen and roll which is a nightmare for Yao.
3. He got Tracy to buy into becoming a complete player and pushed him to become more of a leader. TMac has passed, rebounded, defended, sending his assist numbers and rebound numbers up without giving up too much scoring. TMac was a lock down defender the previous two years when he was playing, but he did slack off this season on the defensive end, not sure what is behind that.
4. The biggest think I like about JVG is the results he was able to get from the horrible cast around Yao and TMac. I believe aside from Yao and TMac we have the roster of a last place team. I cannot believe we win like we do with the following scrubs- Rafer, J Howard, Chucky Hayes, Deke, Head and even Battier (although you got to like Battier's BB IQ and hustle play)

No other top team in the west has such a collection of 3rd team players in their rotation.

Has anyone stopped for a moment and looked at the top seven rotation players for Dallas, Phoenix and SA? You can throw Detroit in the group.

I would trade our next 5 players after Tracy and Yao for the 3-7 players on over half of all NBA teams.

We have surrounded one star player (TMac) who is injury prone and one developing star player (Yao) who is a defensive liability at times with a bunch of players that wouldn't see the court on most teams-

Rafer- barely a back up NBA PG
J Howard- over the hill inconsistent, non-rebounding, no post game PF who is slow an not athletic
Chucky Hayes- developmental league player with hustle who wouldn't be able to do anything if TMac didn't set up lay ups for him.- also a big defensive liability at the 4 since he can't use power or size or athleticism in the post.
Deke- just old and slow, nice that he can still get some put backs and hit a free throw
Head- nice 3 pt shooter who lacks size, has poor handles and cannot defend pg or 2 guards. Barely gets minutes on a good team.
Battier- really nice smart hustle player who doesn't put the ball on the floor very well, is not a strong rebounder and doesn't have a move to get his own shot- the one really complimentary role player we should have in the rotation.

I give JVG this much... he took this team farther than they should have gone.

Get him so NBA players for the rotation and I will make a better evaluation...

Give JVG the kind of team around Yao and TMac that
Dirk and Howard have around them or
Amare and Nash have around them
or Parker and Duncan have

then vote again at the end of that season.

 

Because
"He is what he is"

To paraphrase the get JVG

Rocket River

 

well said rhester.

 

you could say the same for yao and tmac and everyone else on the team. So that really doesnt prove much does? try again

 

Clutch --

I take it you missed the part where DaDa has reflected and his emotions on this matter are quieted. (I heard he took a 3 hour moratorium from mentioning how bald JVG is.)

Van Gundy absolutely had to make it out of the first round, imo. He failed. I think it's unfortunate, because Van Gundy seems to be a mastermind at getting the most out of marginal players, but unable to use dynamic players to their fullest. In the end, it comes down to the ability to make plays, and only 1 guy was given a leash to do that -- and that's why we lost.

My only hope is whoever is the next coach enjoys the same advantage Flip Saunders did when he took over Detroit -- Flip inherited the Detroit defense, and installed his own offense. That team doesn't play like that without a couple years under Larry Brown (of course they flamed out in the playoffs, but still...).

 

It's difficult to say whether I want JVG gone or not. I think he's a great coach who has instilled a great system here in Houston. He's gotten a lot out of the players he's played and has enhanced all of their defensive awareness.

That being said though, the team could probably use a new approach but at the same time keeping a lot of the good qualities and plays learned from JVG and add that to whatever the new coach would bring in.

It's similar to MMA. It's great to be an expert of one art but to be at your best it's best to learn different styles and skills and combine them for your full potential.

We have the defense down but when you don't have an efficient offense to go with it it really puts more pressure on your defense than you want.

JVG has done a lot for this team and organization but a part of me feels either he needs to take a dual head coach combination like some of the other teams where you have one head coach but you have a well established head coach as an assistant coach to make the offense more efficient and versatile or he needs to move on.

I think the ceiling has almost been reached with JVG's system and it's time to add another facet to our team while still retaining the good qualities of JVG's system.

 

True,

I haven't cooled off yet is my problem...

I would like to see us get some better players around TMac and Yao by some miracle and then see Grumpy stay at least 2 more seasons.

I can't really think of a better coach who can do as much with scrubs...

 

Agree on both counts, with some slight additions.
Van Gundy's influence on roster decisions hasn't been the best and his disinclination to develop younger guys adds to that - we aren't going to win with an AARP rotation surrounding Yao and Tracy. On the flipside, these may have been the greatest defensive teams in the history of the franchise, and the players (with a couple exceptions) all seem willing to take a bullet for Jeff. That speaks volumes. A cohesive team on the same page matters so much more than talent on paper.

I also agree that this nostalgic revision of Rudy's tenure speaks poorly of BBS posters. Rudy was the perfect guy for the championship teams because Olajuwon ran the house. Rudy kept it simple and kept the morale way up, but you would never hear a player say that Rudy had them well prepared. His ability to manage the game and work the X&O's was near the bottom of the league. That Francis and company ran all over him sealed his fate. McGrady and Yao do NOT provide leadership, they need it from the coach. Phil Jackson would be the best guy for this roster, but that's not happening.

Rick Adleman isn't an upgrade, and isn't even a lateral move. You won't see him raise our game. Paul Silas is a guy I like, but I don't think he's being considered. Larry Brown I want no part of. SVG won't be in the running for obvious reasons. John Lucas would be intriguing (players around the like would storm the place to play for him), but I don't know if he can get the job done without significant help from assistants (a la Larry Bird in Indiana). Rick Carlisle would be a lateral move, but players don't tend to embrace him.

Are we actually going to take a step forward with a new coach, or slide back? Is developing the young guy (V-Span) the ticket to postseason success or would JVG's win at all cost approach have been better?

Sad thing is, it's clear that we've got to part ways. JVG and mgmt are too strained for this to work, and the fanbase isn't pushing for him to stay.

Evan

 

The reson I'd like to see we have a new coach.
1. Jeff is a good regular season coach? He ask players play every game like it is playoff even from pre-season, then how can you expect them to have a great performance in the playoff in such a long season. He don't know the adjustment. Look at spurs...

2. Bad to deal with different type players, we all always say, team first, but he can not find a ballance point between his stubbern and players bad personallty(like bonzi, sf3...)

3. His O is really painfull to watch when we can not hit the 3s.

4. He always get some players they can not play for more than 2 seasons. DW, JJ, Sura, C.Wood(why we get him? he play for spurs one season then play for us like one game)....

5. Don't trust his new players and don't tolerate their mistakes but in other hand too trust some players no matter what...

6. No imagination.

 

I appreciate you saying that, very nice of you to say. I try hard not to make my opinions something to get overheated about. I'll be in the TC by the Rowdy section (assuming they return) once again next year - be fun to meet you someday. It was really great to shake the hands of so many posters this past year (tinman, Batman, etc).

Makes me less inclined to jab them for things like oh, say, having 119 posts on the first page of threads or being the top or runner-up poster in all 4 threads regarding our soon to be ex-coach

Evan

 

In order: Rudy T, Adleman, Elie, Carlisle

 

i expect some semblance of an offense besides the 4 plays we currently have in our arsenal: iso tmac, run tmac off a jillion screens, post up tmac, post up yao.

i dont recall ever asking this question but its nice to know you're a rockets fan. i assumed as much since you're on this board. and im not a jvg hater. i was happy when we first got him because we needed him at the time: we needed his discipline and his structure. but he's taken a lack of structure and turned it into a mechanical prison. the rockets need to loosen up on offense and find ways to score that don't involve watching yao back his man down and then jack up a fadeaway, or waiting for tmac to create every single shot for his teammates.