JVG - short man - short bench - short sighted

I just don't agree with JVG going 'small' against suns or any other fast team. Just because suns are a great fast and small team, that's because they are well equipped in a small team. And they have marion in the lineup and stoedemire. How could we play 3 little guards against them?? JVG???HOW?? YOu think the ball can be rebounded miraculously?? We're just not well equipped to play small..so I say..play wiht our best lineup! especially in the late 4th quarter!! Yeah maybe Deke is too slow..but we should have had Howard and Hayes to at least compete in rebounds. Why play 3 guards during that time? And have little lucas jack up shots? Lucas 'amazing shooter' is only hitting them in practice..not game time when it counts!

 

You are right SOME of you don't think before you post.

Now let me see... hmmmmmmmmmm How many games did the Mavs lose in the beginning of the season.. I think it was the first 4, so they started off 0-4 and after the first 12 games they were 4-8. Even with that AJ started IMPROVISING both on offense and defense to find a way to win.

Mike D'Antoni - People seem to forget last year that Phoenix not only had injusries to deal with they also had new players. Ok I will give you the fact that they had Nash and he did step like a true superstar to help his team win... But not even MJ or Hakeem could win it all by themselves. Mike D IMPROVISED and used what he had... speeeeeeeeeed and he ran the crap out of everybody.

Bill Belichick - Brilliant in deed... Yes he is a successful coach and not just because of TOM BRADY... Brady is a very big part of their success.... But last time I checked he didn't play defense... The same defense that found a way to stop Peyton, McNabb and even LT. As much as I can't stand New England I will never bet against Belichick, because he will IMPROVISE to do what ever it takes to win.

So let's take a look at the key word in all of those scenario's and that word would be IMPROVISE. I am so tired of JVG and the people on this board using the Injury bug crap.... Every team has to deal with personnel changes and injuries, it's just the nature of the beast.

If you go back and look at my POST and DaDakota post you will notice we are both relaying the same message.

JVG is a great asst coach and a great DEFENSIVE Coach... But for the last 3 to 4 years everyone on this board has stated the same thing, JVG needs help on offense and for the last 3 to 4 years he has NOT CHNAGED. All he does is say that he needs players that fit his style of play. Well news flash, as a coach you have to take your style of play and IMPROVISE that plan around the individuals that you have and in the case of JVG go get a coach who can help you with your offense.

So basically it's like this..... EXCUSES ARE LIKE A _ _ HOLES AND EVERYBODY HAS ONE.

 

So much blah here... where do I start?

Completely ignoring the question, I see? How many games has Dirk missed to injury in the past two years? Jason Terry?

Are you completely unaware of Phoenix's horrible winning % without Steve Nash?

I'm going to pretend like this ridiculous NFL argument isn't an apples-to-oranges comparison: how many games has Tom Brady missed to injury? Are you trying to say that New England plays good defense even with injuries, and we don't? Where exactly are you going with this?

That is a weak strawman. What does "improvise" mean? Did you just find that word in the dictionary? What do you mean by "improvise"? I don't need a fuzzy response, please.

What has not changed? What needs improvising? All I read here is blah, blah, blah, blah. Nothing of substance.

So basically it's like this..... EXCUSES ARE LIKE A _ _ HOLES AND EVERYBODY HAS ONE.[/QUOTE]

 

McGrady does not practice as much as the other players on the team since he's gotten back. You have no idea how "hard" JVG is forcing McGrady to practice. Quit making stuff up.

As for the "intense game style", that's a laughable argument. Now, getting your player to play intense is a coaching flaw? Absolutely ridiculous.

Van Gundy's "high intensity style" some how caused Yao to break his leg? Where do you come up with this stuff?

Oh, god. You're really overreaching here. First, it's Van Gundy's fault for not playing Bonzi. Now, it's his fault for him playing him and him getting injured. If JVG rested Bonzi for a long while and then eventually played him and Bonzi played well, you'd blame Van Gundy for not playing him sooner. Basically, you're going to find fault with Van Gundy no matter what he does.

I didn't say you said JVG was a terrible coach. Your logic is screwy, and the way you're blaming Van Gundy for anything and everything that goes wrong is absurd. We're one of the top 5 teams in the league, and we have no business to be with the personnel we've had. McGrady was not playing like a "top player" in the first month of the season, and since then we've only had Yao OR McGrady. Plus, we've had to play without other key players for large stretches, and give significant minutes to severely limited role players. Why are we winning? Just take a freaking second and think about that. We're not winning simply because McGrady is playing well. He's played well, better even, in the past for teams that have stunk. We're winning because, as a team, we play hard (apparently, you think that's a bad thing) and we play superb defense. These are thing you're actually blaming Van Gundy for. Unbelievable.

Has McGrady or Yao taken this team (or any of their previous teams) deep into the playoffs? Does that mean they're just good players in the regular season, but the jury is still out if they're good in the playoffs? Or do they get held to a different standard? And even by that standard, Van Gundy has taken his teams deep into the playoffs multiple times in the past. He's beaten opposing teams without home court advantage multiple times in the past. He's taken an 8th seed all the way to the Finals. For you to suggest he's only a good regular season coach, but doesn't know how to win in the playoffs (in keeping with the rest of your post) is ridiculous.

Battier is very good, and has been for a while. I'll give you that. But no one could seriously look at Alston, Juwan, Dikembe, Head, Hayes, Lucas as the 3rd-8th players before this season and think, "that's a very supporting cast." As a group, they're quite obviously overachieving. You want to give them all the credit for that, it seems. I think a good share of the credit should also go to the coaches for getting that group of players to be competitive against opposing team's first string players.

I see, so Van Gundy doesn't get credit for getting his players to play hard. But he does get the blame for getting his players to play "too" hard.

Like I said, one would have to conclude that JVG is doing a fantastic, unbelievable job based on your claim that the coach holds the reins and the players are just work horses. I don't actually buy that analogy, and I don't think you do either given your subsequent arguments.

Who IS a good coach, btw? Can you name a very good coach who wins consistently without "fantastic players"? And if not, how do you distinguish very good coaches from merely good or average coaches like JVG? Who's your early coach of the year candidate?

I guess so. The rolleyes emoticon helps for that.

 

Please stop making up stuff. What hard practices? They have had only one practice this month(January 15th). If it wasn't for that practice day, they would have 0 practices this month before his back tightened up.

 

JVG is doing good jobs so far with the seven and a half man rotation, but Deke is old, TMac has a back problem, Bettier said he was too tied after the PHX game. Is it possible to play more players, and play less minute for each one? JVG never plays a NBA game (he is from a college (?) to the NBA team), although he learned lots from P. Riely, maybe lack of his playing in NBA makes him think the NBA players can play 40 minutes every day without a problem.

 

JVG is getting the most out of these guys and you are piling on him for no reason. HE sees these guys day and day out at practice and knows what they are capable of doing (more than some of you beleieve it or not). I think he has a better idea on who is readdy to step on the court. We are 10 games over 500 and we have injury issues. I think if we win 50 games, he should get coach of the year consideration.

 

there goes that theory

 

DD, I'd trade Rafer, Lucas, and Billy for Sam in an instant, based on Sam's play as a rookie. Now maybe I'm looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses, but that's how shallow I think we are at the point. I'm not sure that helps your point, lol.

 

eh, everyone's a critic. how can you blame JVG for the poor play of vspan, the defensive deficiencies of novak, and bonzi's fat ass? accusing him of overplaying his superstar at 37 mins a night?

van gundy has done an amazing job with this team, shaping them into a hard working, defensive minded unit, and he should get due credit for it. instead, he gets flak for making them work "too hard", or with too much intensity? or maybe how he can't see vspan's obvious awesome game?

the most important thing right now? we're winning. we're hanging with the best of them, even when we're shorthanded. it'll be interesting to see what happens once yao gets back, when teams can no longer focus their defenses on tmac or yao individually. im excited for that, and everyone should be, too.

when we're shutting down teams and wearing them down with tmac and yao, i know the bbs wont be seeing too many "JVG sucks" threads. but then again, i dont think i should ever doubt DD's persistence.

 

It would be you to make stuff up by saying McGrady doesn't follow regular routine of a practice. Also, I'm talking about the span of JVG's tenure. Not just this recent month or whatever. Quit being short sighted like JVG.

You missed the point again. The point is hard working is good, too much of it is not. JVG get some credits to push players work hard, but will be blamed when he is too demanding for efforts to the point of being negligent to player's health condition.

1. Allowing Yao to play through great workload while his toe was seriously infected, resulting in a surgery and lots of games missed. Stuff like this wore out player's body faster than usual.

2. Allowing Sura to play through knee and back injuries on high workload, which wore out his body faster and Sura ends up retiring.

3. Putting Yao's body on the most workload of current NBA centers,
failing to take the physical load of his giant body and year round schedule into account.

Don't dodge my point by twisting my intention again. I'm merely saying the more you drive the car, the more you wears it out, and the more it gets worn out, the more susceptible it is prone to break down.

I guess this simple stuff takes some time for a JVG worshipping mind to understand.

Ya know, I just love your overly simplified world in which extremity makes for simplicity. JVG not playing Bonzi is IMHO not about being in shape, but about molding the type of player he wants. Your stance is it's about Bonzi's not in shape, and admitted that since Bonzi wasn't in shape, he played poorly and got injured. The conclusion is by your own words, JVG overworked Bonzi and got them injured.

Don't mix up my opinions with yours and try to present a case of contradiction on my part.

Yawn, I gave JVG kudos when credit is due in my previous posts. I also graded him as doing a good job, but obviously you somehow missed it again with your selective reasoning.

I explicitly said playing hard is good, just not when there's too much of it. I also gave JVG credit on defense. I'm against giving too much credit to JVG, since Shane Battier, Dikembe and Juwan etc... are all hard working professionals on their own right.

McGrady and Yao are top players on their own right with or without JVG. It's apparent as daylight.JVG can do nothing without them. It's also apparent as daylight. In my book, playoffs are the real wars for coaches. Unlike the regular season, coaches have a specific opponents and ample time to study and make plans, it's the best time to judge a coach.

I hope you don't get scarred to know that your idol JVG is human as well with ups and downs. He went to the finals nearly a decade ago in a shortened season. A top player ten years ago is not a top player today. The same thing goes for a coach. If a top coach is still a top coach after ten years, Rudy would be still coaching this team.

And unlike Rudy, JVG quit on his team in the middle of a season.

Now you have an unbelievable tendency to twist my position. I never said JVG doesn't know how to win in the playoffs, I said he needs to prove himself as a top notch coach by taking the team deep to the playoffs.

Clarification Nth time: I already gave JVG credits on defense and pushing players to play hard in my previous posts.

If you don't read my posts or for whatever reasons translate my words as you like, I don't see any point in wasting time with you.

Do you JVG apologists spend all day arguing with yourself?

See we are going in circles. I already posted in my previous post that a good rider with a top notch horse can get excellent results. You ignore it and going on with your "logical" conclusion of JVG must be fantastic blah blah blah.

I think we have top players in Yao, McGrady and other pros which makes for a nice team, despite injuries, we always had one or two top players and dedicated pros. You think our group as a whole is just average. Good, selling our players short to pump up your idol.

I'm outta here as it's no fun to get misinterpreted all the time.

 

I know I read or heard somewhere that they've been taking it easy with McGrady since he's returned off the court. Since I can't recall where I read/heard it, I'll rescind the comment.

And I don't think you actually know anything about how hard JVG works his players, in particular McGrady and Yao, in practice.

That's not a good analogy. Human bodies aren't cars. They can become stronger, they can recuperate. Further, the Rockets have physical trainers and doctors on staff. They know far more about what their players can handle, physically, than you.

As for Sura, he was injury prone before he came to the Rockets. He was on the IL his first month here.

That's not my conclusion, because I think your notion that a coach gets his players injured by "overworking" them is pure nonsense. If Bonzi is getting injured because his body can't handle the work, that's his own damn fault.

Anyways, I think JVG didn't play Bonzi because he wasn't committed to the team -- it was partly to do with his crummy attitude, and partly to do with him not being in proper shape. Bonzi came to JVG and said he'd do whatever it takes to be a team player, and JVG threw him a bone. Physically, it looks like he still wasn't ready. Hopefully he is now.

And how do you define "too much"? That's the part that's missing. If the team suffers injuries to key players, does that automatically means they're working too hard?

Anyone who follows the team knows that McGrady is allowed to coast more than any of the other players. Van Gundy never calls him out when he gives a shabby defensive effort.

Well, I disagree fundamentally with how you evaluate coaches. I think it goes well beyond how many playoff series he wins. I'll leave it there.

Did I just imagine that whole episode where Rudy left the Lakers in the middle of the season?

If he knows how to win in the playoffs, then what else is there to prove? That he can get his players to know how to win as well?

I don't recall you ever giving credit to JVG for getting his players to play hard until this post. If I'm mistaken, sorry.

Anyways, I don't think either of us are interested in prolonging this conversation. It boils down to this for me. Van Gundy has already proven to me that he's a good coach, and I know he's an effective playoff coach. I think him demanding that the team work hard and play with intensity is a good thing, and I don't blame him at all for the player injuries we've been dealing with the last two seasons. Do I agree with everything he does? Of course not. I think he can be a little too cautious, too conservative. If we're leading by a wide margin late in the game, he should rest the veterans more and give some of the other players more playing time. There are other things. But these are nitpicks. Overall, he's a very good coach, and this season in particular he's done a great job.

You probably don't agree with most of what I said in the previous paragraph. Fine. Let's just leave it at that.

 

This is the dumbest opinion I have ever heard. You just criticized JVG for getting his players to play too hard. What does that mean. Would it be better if the Rox just stopped and laid down on the court to rest every other possesion. That would decrease the strain on them.

Then you comment on injuries being because JVG allows players to play through pain. You think Yao, Sura, and Tmac had anything to do with wanting to play despite being hurt. I am sure they begged JVG for rest and he threw them in the game anyway. This is the NBA, if JVG sat everyone who had some pain, Keith Jones would be in the starting line up.

Also during JVG's tenure, how many practices have you been too. I find it funny that you know he overworks players in practice, even though teams rarely even practice during the NBA season.