Why argue about assumptions, something that can't be prove? Let's just talk about facts... 1) Tmac is taller than Manu 2) Tmac has more points/assist per game than Manu 3) Tmac played more minutes than Manu 4) Tmac has been a scoring champ twice, Manu has none 5) Other teams put more defense on Tmac than Manu Can Manu become a better player than Tmac if Manu has to? No one knows, but for now, Manu is not as good as Tmac yet... End of discussion..
I mentioned it earlier, at the end of close games ("clutch time") Ginobili's scoring and assists both go up significantly. He clearly is the primary playmaker for the Spurs in that scenario. I do think, more generally, the Spurs have a more balanced offensive attack than the Rockets. Ginobili won't have the ball in his hands as much as T-Mac, so he's not going to assist on teammate's baskets quite as frequently. For the season, basketball-reference.com estimates that Ginobili assists on 27.1% of his teammate's baskets, while T-Mac assists on 29.7% of his teammate's baskets. A year ago, McGrady's playmaking as a passer was a career best -- he assisted on 37.1% of his teammate's baskets. Dwyane Wade last year was the only non-PG to assist on higher percentage of his teammate's baskets.
Manu is great. no question about it..if i was coach, i would love to have him on the team. but if you have to campare manu and tmac tmac>>manu on basket court manu>>tmac in Hollywood
Damn, you caught me. I was going to play the injury card next, but I see you've already got that covered. I will say this however, it's easier to adapt to playing less minutes than it is to play more minutes and keeping productivity consistent. I have no doubt that T-Mac would be able to be effective in a less minutes, he's not all about scoring, anyway. Mac can affect a game just by being on the court, not something I would say about Ginobili.
no, you opinion is based on *extrapolating* what he might do. as many have said, the tell tale sign is popovich only plays him (at most) 33mpg in the playoffs. And it is Duncan and Parket who hold the Finals MVP awards...not Ginobody. He is arguably the best 6th man in the history of the NBA...ahead of Kukoc and possilbe McHale. But that is his role. His role is to destroy the 2nd teams of the opponents and to be a key figure in the 4th Q. Before this year, it was obvious that when teams design defenses vs the Spurs they first must find answers for Duncan and Parker. Popovich exploits that with Gino. This is definitely Gino's best year. He has a very slow and deliberate 3pt shot, much like Mobley learned to do to reach is top 5 3pt% at around 44%. Both Mobley and Gino have to set their feet and shoot 3s very slowly. Their % is based on largely shooting wide open 3s. What is most remarkable about Gino this year vs other years he his step back J where he darts left then steps back to the right....that is a stellar shot. but as krocket just said, TMac is simply taller making him a much better passer. TMac sets up his other players so much better. and note...JVG is a master of defenses. If he says TMac is better, I gaurantee you that is based on his knowledge of how hard it is to create a defense to stop him. He knows other teams are primarily designing defenses to stop Parker and Duncan. And as I said, popovich exploits that with Gino. It is nice having a 3rd star on your team like that. It's a luxury. This is Gino's best year. This is a down yr for TMac until recently. Now we are seeing it again. btw: I consider Lebron a SG...ie. a wing player in charge of the team. He and Kobe are the best. TMac is next. btw btw: and as everyone has said, Gino plays in a style that makes him injury prone...the nagging injury type thing. All the facts point to Popovich know what he is doing by limiting Gino's minutes. I just don't see how someone can argue with Popovich's track record of not giving Gino top flight minutes in the playoffs.
If the argument is McGrady is more valuable to the Rockets than Ginobili is to the Spurs, I'm fully behind that. And if that's how you want to define who the better player is, I have no problem with that either. But, in my opinion Ginobili could be putting up "superstar" type numbers over an entire season if he was in a situation where it is required of him. He hasn't had to do it in the past, but I'm not holding that against him. JVG said a week or two ago that Ginobili was the second best SG in the league. Was that true then? And Ginobili's productivity (per minute) increases when he's not playing with both Parker and Duncan. So there goes that "3rd star" theory. Also, if as you say he's a key 4th quarter player ... is he playing against the other team's second team in the final period? No, he's playing against the best they have to offer. And, he's at his best at the end of games. So, I'm not buying the argument that he can't be similarly productive against starters. Popovich has 3 legitimate stars, and (like most coaches)I think he feels that the post man and PG are the most important position. That's why he starts Parker and Duncan. To fully utilize Ginobili's abilities, he plays him off the bench. It's unorthodox to not play all your big guns at once, but I understand the logic behind it. That does not mean Ginobili is incapable of excelling as a starting SG. Popovich isn't interested in just playing his best player big minutes. It's all about maximally utilizing the talent of every body over the course of a game.
why are we arguing over some guy who has NEVER proven he can carry a team v. someone who has? yao avg 25ppg last yr on 33 mpg. YET this yr he avg 22ppg on 37 mpg. u CANNOT extrapolate stats on mpg. if he was to play more minutes, his role could drastically change. he might be more of a distributor as defenses key on him even more. his fg% might go down as he has to resort to the J b/c of the fatigue (which is a huge reason why he's able to drive)... and so on. there are so many factors that cannot be taken statistically as you play more and more (fatigue, role...) but more importantly, great players are made in the PLAYOFFS. i never consider manu a "superstar/franchise" player b/c he has never dominated the playoffs. tony parker made a playoff series his own even once last yr v. the cavs and manu never did. his stats last yr in the playoffs were 16 points on 40% shooting. even in 05-06 when he started all 16 but 2 playoff games, he avg 18ppg. his highest miniutes per game in the playoffs is 33. his career playoff #s are 15ppg on 44% shooting. like i said, great players put up great #s regardless of the team they are on. u cannot say b/c of tony parker or duncan, ginobili can't play 35-36 minutes or put up the #s. and durvasa, if u think ginobili is on the level of tmac, u must also think pierce is aroudn there. yet pierce averages 37 MINUTES PER GAME. he has ray allen AND garnett (2 all-stars) and yet he still plays a lot. he has good backups in posey and allen, and yet he still plays 37 mpg. when you are a great player, you will be out there playing b/c ANY SANE COACH would want their best players out there the most, esp. during playoff times. manu has avg the max this yr at 31 mpg, and playoffs 30 mpg. there's a reason why that's the case. he's not the spurs' best player. he never was and he's not now.
you can point out all the Holinger type linear extrapolation stats you want, but you cannot deny that Popovich believes that his team is most efficient by limiting Ginobili's minutes.
If Ginobody is as good at TMac and Duncan is better than Yao and Parker better than Alston...bowen and battier are a wash...then why are the Rockets only 1 game behind the Spurs?
again man, ur not reading what i'm saying. why aren't parker or duncan limited to 30 mpg? duncan is older, shouldn't he be limited in minutes so he could be fresher? but yet he still averages 35 mpg. don't u get that? if manu was SO GREAT and on the level of a tracy mcgrady, he shouldn't play 30 mpg, esp. in the playoffs. if u watch enough basketball, u should know that. and to popovich, the best way to play manu is 30 mpg. but his most indispensable players are parker and ginobili since they average 35 and 34 mpg respectively.
That's a great question. I can't explain how the Rockets have gone 29-3 or whatever it is in 2008. But it's been a team effort. Not one or two guys carrying the team. Also, the Rockets place much higher value on winning regular season games than the Spurs. The Spurs are more interested in durability and playing in a certain way, rather than the final win/loss tally. That has something to do with it too.
let's bark upon that. u would think the reason manu plays so little minutes in the reg. season is b/c pop is saving him for the playoffs (since tony parker and duncan's minutes rocket in the playoffs and they're saving them for the playoffs). tony parker and duncan avg 38 mpg per game last yr. manu's minutes don't change one bit. isn't that interesting?
so popovich says...oh, i don't need home court advantage. Or is he saying that I can't play Ginobili 38mpg like TMac, Kobe and Lebron because he'll blow out before the playoffs. since when did Phil Jackson ever not try to win homecourt advantage. Do you think Phil Jackson could say to Kobe or Jordan..."Oh, let's limit you to 30mpg, because this is just the regular season" and we've already won multiple championships.
according to nba.com, last season, duncan averaged 34.1 mpg in the regular season and 36.8 minutes in the playoffs. parker averaged 32.5 mpg in the reg season and 37.6 in the playoffs. manu averaged 27.5 mpg in the reg season and 30.1 in the playoffs. when you use stats, do you just make them up? be honest.
oh come on...have your read all his posts. He meant 38 in the playoffs. You just showed that he was correct on with Parker and a minute off on Duncan. so what? Mainly, all t_mac1 is saying is that popovich peaks out Parker and Duncan's minutes in the playoffs. He does not peak out Ginobili.
I think I've addressed the playoffs already. Not sure what else you want me to say on that. Ginobili's role is as a scorer/playmaker. That means he requires the ball. If he's playing the majority of his minutes alongside Duncan and Parker, is that maximizing his abilities? Parker is a PG who's job is to distribute the ball. And we all know what Duncan brings to the table. The point and post man are two crucial positions for any team, so Popovich is going to play his all-stars at that position big minutes. Ginobili's skill set has value, but moreso when he can dominate the ball. We're seeing something similar with T-Mac this year. Now, he's the main guy with Yao out, and his productivity has suddenly increased. Do you think it's a coincidence? Ok, so why not just play Ginobili 40 minutes a game? He plays with the starters, and the Spurs also take advantage of him when Duncan and/or Parker is resting. Well, Ginobili also expends a lot of energy the way he plays on both ends, and that's how Pop wants it. So, he's best served playing relatively less minutes. He could scale back some of that frenetic style and play more like T-Mac for 40 minutes (you know, play at half-speed), but I don't think Popovich would have much patience for that. I think that sums it up. Ginobili is at his best playing with the ball in his hands, like any great winger scorer/playmaker. But he's also somewhat unique in that he plays with high-octane energy whenever he's on the floor. Popovich likes both of those qualities. Take the two together, and the fact that the Spurs have two capable all-stars already in the starting lineup, and it makes sense why Ginobili would play relatively fewer minutes on their team.
Having home court advantage is nice, but its nicer to have fresher legs for your 3 stars when the playoffs come.
