Look, if Mac was on the Spurs he would not be coming off the bench. To think otherwise would be silly. If Manu was on the Rox, we would not be streaking right now. That's the most likely way things would shake out. I agree that Manu is a great player, but I don't believe he could do what Mac does. Can you honestly see anyone saying Manu has the potential of being at the level of kobe or Lebron? I'm not talking numbers, just the game they play. I understand we may never know, but you have to understand what McGrady means to this team and what talent he really possesses. In the end, if I had to choose who was on the Rox, I'd take Mac ten out of ten times.
short period of time? how about he carried the team last year AND this year without Yao?? Can Manu do that without Duncan?? If you guys don't want to give him credit for the wins. stop blaming him for the playoff losses too
So, you only think a player is capable of something once they've done it? I don't see things that way. I think it's possible to extrapolate how a player would perform with a change in role. Teams have to do that all the time; there's nothing wrong with that. You're right, Ginobili hasn't proven that he can carry a team the way McGrady has. But it hasn't been proven that he can not do so, either. I mean, I could just as easily say that T-Mac hasn't proven he can be as good a bench player for 30 minutes a night because he's never done it. Kind of a weird way to look at things, don't you think?
As JVG said today, if TMac is averaging the same numbers as Manu is in his 'breakout' year, TMac would be considered a failure. That comment right there - Game over.
These are projections, no? Can Ginobili actually play extended minutes for a long stretch, while being the focal point of an offense, drawing double teams and the best defender every night, AND still keep his stats up? I say no. Say what you want about him being without Duncan, but it was for a limited amount of time, and he still had another star with him (Parker). Any player can have good stretches, or even a good season (see Hedo Turkoglu), but it takes a special player to keep it up consistently per season. IMO, Ginobili is not as good as T-Mac.
So durvasa, the question becomes, do you believe Manu can sustain his brilliant level of play long enough to carry a team the whole season and into the playoffs? It's a question of if's now, so it's a moot point. Just on pure talent alone, I do not (as you) consider Manu in the same class as T-Mac but you make valid points so it's hard to argue... My point is that i don't think Ginobili could do the same things T-Mac does if he was in T-Mac's position, now and in Orlando. That's all I am saying.
Just a week or two ago, he said Ginobili was without question the second best 2-guard in the league. Did Ginobili's numbers suddenly drop between then and now? I don't think JVG takes these individual rankings that seriously. That's just for TV.
They have tried to increase Manu's minutes. He starts complaining about getting tired if he gets anything close to heavy minutes, and his production starts falling off very quickly. And putting him in the starting lineup? Forget about it.
That's fine. I don't really know. Just based on what I've seen from him, I think he has all the tools, in terms of skill and physical/mental ability, to be that guy. The question is does he have the durability and stamina to sustain a high level of play for 35+ minutes a game and an entire season. Well, we know he can do it for 30 minutes a game. Hey, maybe there's some drop off if he's playing a few more minutes a game. I just don't think it would be substantial.
Didn't T-Mac come off the bench earlier this season? It's all so vague now. I seem to remember him coming off the bench for four straight games, and the Rockets winning all four of them.
1) That's a logical fallacy.... begging the question. 2) You don't compare a 0 time all-nba team player, with 0 top 10 MVP finishes, and 0 individual accomplishments in the NBA to Tracy McGrady. He's never had to lead a team by himself period, and he's never had to face the pressure Mac does on the defensive end on a consistent basis. His entire career he's been playing with a top 10 player all time, and Tony Parker - along with a strong supporting cast. Why is his per minute production higher? It's COMMON SENSE, the same reason why rookies per minute production are so high. He plays LESS MINUTES. It isn't indicative of what he'd be doing in more minutes by any means. The fact that you claim that McGrady has never sustained MVP level ball through a season is ludicrous. He's finished in the top 10 every season post Orlando that he's been healthy. He's come insanely close to an MVP already in his career (top 3 in a league with Prime Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, AI, VC etc.) You're basically arguing that IF Manu was in Mac's situation, he'd thrive. There is 0 evidence to substantiate this. You're discounting other people's opinions by saying their based on personal bias.. but all i'm seeing from you is flawed stats and inconclusive conclusions. Comparing Manu to McGrady is a joke. This team would be lottery bound Ginobli, while the Spurs would be a Dynasty with McGrady.
durvasa I wonder if we could compare assists like we do points. Tmac has had a lot of games with double digit assists. I know that Ginobili averages 5? is the correct. I am just curious if he has the same impact in creating for his teammates. Or if he could have the same impact that tmac does in creating for teammates.
Yes. He averaged 31 minutes a game in that span, and a little over 17 ppg. Of course, he was just coming off an injury so it's not really a fair comparison. But, regardless, if the argument is that we can't extrapolate what Ginobili would do if he played 35+ mpg for a full season, surely we can't extrapolate T-Mac's ability to play off the bench off that sample.
Seriously, Manu would most likely NEVER have a game like McGrady did last night. 48 minutes, 41 pts...
Dude, he had several 35+ point games this season. Don't knock him. He clearly has the ability to score with the best of them, it's just a question of whether he can do it consistently and play big minutes. The evidence points to no (look at his game logs, after a few games of going long minutes his production falls off).
