JayZ750, I wasn't making an actual threat. I was just using your logic in a circumstance that involved you. To the rest of you Howard jockers, If I go outside in the street, close my eyes, and start spinning around with a baseball bat and no one gets hit, then who cares. But, what if I hit someone in the head? I didn't mean to do it. I'm very sorry I did it. I am also sorry that they'll miss work for some time while in the hospital being treated for a head injury (or whatever), but you people would sure as hell care then. The end result does matter. Same thing as if you're hunting in the woods, or just goofing off and shooting at stuff, but you accidentally hit someone.... you didn't even see them. It's called reckless endangerment, and that's what Howard did. And, the result did warrant a suspension if only a token one. Something to send a message to the rest of the league, and lessen the possibility of retaliation from San Antonio. ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
You guys remember when Ainge PEGGED Elie in the head in the Rockets Suns series in 94 as time was running out in the 4th quarter?...It was CLEARLY intentional, and not in the flow of the game. Ainge was NOT suspended. Remember when Malone coldcoked David Robinson with a deliberate cheapshot elbow?...That was much worse and Malone was not suspended or even ejected! -If you suspend Howard for a hard foul where he did actually get a lot of ball before the body contact, then you are going to have to start dishing out a lot of other suspensions for the truly cheap and dirty stuff that goes on in the NBA. I think the NBA made the right call by not suspending Howard. It was a hard foul, but I've seen a lot worse that did not result in suspensions. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
Something very similar happened to me once upon a time. I was playing football with my friends and kicking ass as usual. I wasn't a great football player, but I was pretty damn good. I had even gotten some interest from a coach from Prairie View A&M. Now, Prairie View isn't exactly Nebraska, but I didn't care. I just loved football, and I wanted to keep playing. It was the week after the end of my senior season, and as I said my friends and I were playing. On the other team a guy by the name of Brandon Tristan (or something close) was playing. My friends went to highschool with him, but I didn't know him. He thought he was some sort of ball player, but he wasn't doing sh*t. Anyway, I guess he got pissed and decided to try and hit me real hard. Well, my idiot friends decided to run a play for me right up the middle, just to rub it in the other team's face. I objected, but went along with it anyway. As I crossed the line of scrimmage one of the other guys was on the ground and he reached out and tripped me, and I went down after only like a 4-yard gain. I was down. I wasn't trying to gain any more yardage. I was actually was about to get up. I rolled onto my side, and my shoulders were perpendicular to the ground. This dumb f*ck Tristan, decided he wanted to put a little hurt on me, so he jumped up in the air and landed on me with his ass, and the full force of his weight... right on my left shoulder. My right shoulder took all of the impact and snapped my collar bone in half. It also ripped all the ligaments and anything else holding my right shoulder together apart. Now, if I could go back in time, and quickly roll out of the way, I would beat the living crap out of that dude. He ended my football career with that bullsh*t p*ssy play. I don't think he intentionally tried to break one of my bones. I think he was just sick of me kicking his team's a** and wanted to get a lick in. That's all fine, but he did it outside the bounds of football. He hit me after the play was over, and he hit me with a malicious intent. It wasn't his hit that pissed me off, it was the fact that the doctor asked me if I had been hit by a car, and that I wasn't going to get to play college football. Juwan Howard could stand to miss 2 to 3 games after ending Derek Anderson's season. ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
So. I've seen guys hit women and nothing happen to them... does that mean it shouldn't? ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
I say that people want him suspended because Derek Anderson happened to get hurt on the play. I can't tell you how many times a player has been hit hard on a foul and wasn't suspended. It just happened that Anderson was hurt in a playoff game. I wonder if people would be calling for Howard to get suspended if a foul resulted in Bryce Drew getting hurt for 3 to 6 weeks in a regular season game, I doubt it. I think it's a case of a decently known starting 2-guard for the team favored to win the title, in the playoffs, in some cases against a team that people dislike, and now people want blood. I know people will say "well Derek Anderson ismore important then Bryce Drew", but the rules were made to protect players not teams. And I doubt that people would want blood if it was a lesser known player on a lesser team. It was just an accident. ------------------ See the three, be the three. [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited May 08, 2001).]
Your story doesn't have anything to do with the play of Juwan Howard DREAMer. Howard's foul wasn't for revenge, it wasn't after the play, and it wasn't made solely to injure Derek Anderson. Those are two different situations. One situation was some idiot trying to purposely injure someone, the other was a foul that accidently resulted in an injury. In one situation the injured party would tear the guy apart if they could, in the other situation the injured party said they believe it was an accident. Two completely different situations. People are taking this out of the realm of what really happened, and it is taking a life of it's own. It wasn't out bounds of sports, it wasn't malicious, and it Howard wasn't out to take Derek Anderson out. ------------------ See the three, be the three. [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited May 08, 2001).]
I'm sure in Brandon Tristan's mind he didn't do anything wrong.. just like Howard And, the circumstances are relavant. Both guys were playing sports and both guys went further than they should've, and both guys injured someone else. I don't give a damn if it's Thomas Hamilton or Hakeem Olajuwon. If a player injures another on a play like that, then he sure as hell can sit out 2 or 3 FU*KING GAMES! ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
DREAMer, what you're missing is that Howard's play was done inside the bounds of basketball. Hard fouls happen all the time. Now if he would've jumped on Anderson after the whistle blew, hell yeah he should be suspended. There's was absolutely no malicious intent on Howard's part, unlike the ass that did that to you. ------------------ www.swirve.com "Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're f*****."-George Carlin
I think there was some frustration involved, but no malice or attempt to injure someone. Still when a player is up in the air & exposed like that, then frustration or not, you should know to be careful. I dunno if suspension is the answer, but the ejection was justified, and perhaps a fine or something. ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
Why? It's the playoffs, you don't let someone have an uncontested layup if you expect to win. He went up for the ball and something bad happened. He shouldn't hesitate to do it again. ------------------ www.swirve.com "Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're f*****."-George Carlin
Here's something that may change your minds. Imagine Steve Francis in place of Derek Anderson on that play, with the same result occuring. Now, what would you guys think of howard? ------------------
Yeah, I was just messing around. But I do see your point. It is a delicate matter. I just think in this particular instance, no harm was intended and it the injury was indirectly related to the foul. ------------------ I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
Imaging Scottie Pippen in place of Derek Anderson. Now, tell me Juwon Howard isn't your new hero. ------------------ I'm about to boldly go where many men have gone before.
A hard foul is coming down on someone's arms hard to make sure they don't make the basket. It is not within the realm of basketball to nail someone at full speed who is at the peak of their leap to the bucket. It's just as cheap as under-cutting a dunker. And under-cutting isn't part of basketball. What coach teaches that? For the record: Karla should've been suspended, Ainge should've been suspended, Howard should be suspended, and no if it was Pippen that got hurt my opinion wouldn't change. ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
To all you who think that the injury was "just an unfortunate accident" or that it "shouldn't matter that the guy got hurt"... Riddle me this What is the difference between Ralph Sampson throwing a punch at Jerry Sicthing, and the punch Kermit Washington landed on Rudy Tomjanovich? THE INJURY YOU FRIGGIN' NUMB SKULLS! Rudy's injury was just an unfortunate accident. Kermit never meant to hurt anyone. He's said he was sorry.... ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited May 08, 2001).]
You can't try to equate the Rudy T-Kermit Washington incident to the Howard-Anderson incident. That's ludicrous. Kermit SUCKER PUNCHED Rudy T who was trying to break up a fight. Howard went for the ball and his follow through caused him to collide with DA's arm, which sent him sprawling. Let's keep in mind DA is 6'4" 190, a very skinny guy. -I still feel that in the absence of CLEAR INTENT to injure someone (like a punch or shove in the back without even trying to make a play on the ball) a suspension is unwarranted. -As for the "What if it was Steve Francis" posts, naturally we'd be a lot more ticked if that happened. But when you are away from the situation (watching 2 teams you don't care about either way) you can be a lot more objective. To me, it was just what it was: A foul of an excessive nature but NOT a dirty play. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
What if on Hakeem Olajuwon's miraculous block of the Rod Strickland layup in the 94 playoffs, his arm motion in going for the block was just a little different. What if instead of a clean block, his elbow had ACCIDENTALLY caught Strickland's eye. Strickland suffers permanent eye damage and Blazers team members and fans DEMAND that Hakeem be SUSPENDED for several games. "He had NO chance at the block and was just frustrated about committing a dumb turnover," cried the Blazers. I know this is a pure hypothetical and hard to visualize but just think about it. Hakeem went up trying to make a play and made a great block. Who's to say Juwan wasn't thinking the exact same thing? ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
DREAMer, your comparisons aren't relevant. You keep forgetting that this incident happened within the normal framework of the game. Kermit Washington punching Rudy T happened in a fight, something that doesn't normally happen in a game. The ass that hit you after the play is something that doesn't normally happen in a game. Someone going up to block a shot normally happens in a game. I really find this funny coming from someone who thinks Mike Tyson is an angel. ------------------ www.swirve.com "Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're f*****."-George Carlin
What if there was 2.4 seconds left in the game instead of the half and the Mavs were up 1 with Anderson going for the dunk? Would Howard's foul be looked at differently in that circumstance? ------------------
Rocketman95, "Normal framework of the game" - What does that mean? Does that mean within the rules? Or something else. If it means within the rules, then Howard was outside the framework of the game, or he would not have been given a flagrant foul and been ejected. You see he was ejected for playing outside the "normal framework of the game". If it means something else, then tell me. How about "unwritten rules"? For instance, it is an unwritten rule that you don't undercut someone in the air, especially if you have no legitimate play on the ball. Howard's play was the same sort of play as undercutting someone. Howard came in a full-speed, and didn't let up when the contact was made. In fact, he increased the severity of the impact by swinging his arm into Anderson and sending him out of control. It was a chicken sh*t play, and if I was a member of the Spurs, I would've retaliated in like fashion. Because obviously, they can't count on the league to police this sort of play. I didn't say fights normally happen in games. I was making the distinction of how players get suspended for longer periods of time when they injure someone. Mourning and LJ didn't get suspended for 3 or 4 months (or whatever Washington got), for their fight, and it happened during a game. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANY OTHER FIGHT AND KERMIT/RUDY WAS THAT RUDY WAS SEVERELY INJURED And, several people have stated in this thread that an injury should not regulate whether a player gets suspended. So, to use their (the people who believe that) logic, Kermit should've only been suspended for landing a punch, not for injuring Tomjanovich, and I obviously disagree with that. There are late hits all the time in football. The only difference is I got injured. But, Howard had no realistic chance at blocking Anderson's shot without fouling him. And, Howard came at Anderson with reckless abandon at full speed and swung into Anderson.... that just is NOT basketball. What the heck does Mike Tyson, or what I think of him have to do with this situation? And, why is it funny? Yes, I am a big fan of Tyson... maybe the only one left. But, I still think he should've been suspended for biting Holifield, just like Howard should've been suspended. Yes, Tyson's bite was more despicable than Howard's ill-advised "block" attempt, but that doesn't make Juwan's play any less deserving of a suspension. Also, don't even for a second try to tell me that if that was Tim Duncan laying on the floor with a dislocated shoulder that Howard wouldn't have been suspended. If you believe that, then you must work for the NBA and are brain washed, or you're in a mental institute and you don't even know what basketball is. ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited May 09, 2001).]
