EXACTLY!!! EXACTLY MY POINT! no one is in denial, gunn. the team sucks at this point. no one is completely free of blame for this. no one. but that's not the way justice plays it, gunn...he throws it on Kent's shoulders across a few columns...and then writes a column about how we should never even consider moving bagwell out of the 3 hole, because it's a slap in the face to the best player in franchise history, who happens to be a super nice guy, too. THAT is denial.
Are you expecting people to take this seriously? Why single out Kent? I'm not speaking for Justice, but how about him clearly doggin' it out there, and he is at one of only, if not the only, positions in which we can replace him. It's not hard to understand what Justice is saying here. It seems to me that all he's saying is that if Kent is going to dog it out there then why not bring up the only player we have, the season is done anyway, and maybe Burke will play hungry for the time.
Getting ugly in here. Can we all agree on the following? 1 - Richard Justice is neither the best nor the worst columnist in sports. 2 - Kent should've run harder on that hit and should be in the dog house, at the very least. 3 - The season is over. Let's get some kids up here! They'll at least run hard.
Maybe you're right, maybe he does have a unbridled affiliation with Bagwell (which might be likened to someone else I know) but I see no reason to bash Justice for this article because he's right on.
I understand that Justice has a bias against and for certain guys. And someone at the Chronicle really needs to talk to him about it because it has eroded his crediability. But Kent go called out by Jim Rome yesterday. And yes, I know Rome doesn't like Kent either. But this incident isn't something that Justice has over-blown.
yeah..i understand your point. again, i've really never been a Kent fan, and that's weird for me given my obsession for second basemen! but i think you said it best...his credibility has been eroded. i read every article he writes with a cynical eye.
Again, his first sentence of the article shows his bias. His favorite moment of the weekend? Why would that be someone's favorite moment? We should send him an e-mail saying our favorite moment was the guy going from second to third while Bagwell four-hopped (exaggeration) his throw over there. I've said it before, I'm not a big Kent fan. He's had the air about him that he just doesn't give a ****, both this year and last. You can be both critical of a crappy journalist and the person he's criticizing. Their not mutually exclusive. Now can we drop the freakin' personal insults over here. This has become my favorite forum on this BBS, let's not destroy it. If I've said anything to anyone to offend them here, I hereby apologize. Let's drop it.
I remember that time that mom took down your Bill Doran poster (because you wouldn't stop staring at it) and you got mad and threw your Buddy Biancalana autographed ball at her.
Um, you should understand that Justice was using the term "favorite" in an attempt at sarcasm - he didn't really mean that he enjoyed that moment. In reality, he's just pointing out what a terrible weekend the Astros had all around and indicating that Kent's lack of hustle was the height of their failures. Having watched all 3 games (ouch!), I agree with Justice that Kent's being thrown out was lowest point in the series. You might think that Justice's attempt at sarcasm was poor or even that sarcasm is not called for, but you can't argue that he's biased against either Kent or the team based on his opening sentence. It's just a joke.
Well, for horrible trades I'd go back to the Randy Johnson deal. Sure, Randy was a nice addition to the club in going for the world series, but was he really worth 3 exceptional prospects in John Halama (4.40 ERA), Freddy Garcia (3.37 ERA) and Carlos Guillen (.323 BA) (the shortstop that could have been). After that there are some neutral to good deals including the Evereett for Everett swap and the Hampton/D. Bell for Dotel and Roger Cedeno deal. December 2000 - we trade Roger Cedeno (now hitting .317 for St. Louis ARGGGHHHH for what? Brad Ausmus again and Doug Brocail. Effectively neutralizing the Hampton deal. e.g. - we lose Hampton and Roger Cedeno for Brad Ausmus and Doug Brocail. June 2001 - We proceed to deal Lima-time for who? Dave Mlicki? Question - can Hunsicker not spot talent? Dec. 2001 - we let both Vinny C and Moises go. I understand the contract situation, but wouldn't it be nice to have Vinny C at 3rd rather than scrounging like we have with Truby, Blum, Ensberg. Now Lamb looks OK, but his defense is horrible. 2003 - We lose Mark Loretta. How did we lose him? A better 2nd basemen than Kent - absolutely? Jan 2003 - not a big deal but we lose a MLB player in Darryl Ward for who? Ruddy Lugo? Here's where it gets bad for our relief pitching. Before getting a stroke of luck (maybe) in Pettitte/Clemens (I say maybe becuase it appears the NYY knew more about Pettitte's injury than we did) guess what Hunsicker lost: May 2003 - Lost Scott Linebrink (now a 1.79 ERA) Nov. 2003 - Lost Ron Villone (a respectable 3.52 ERA) Dec. 2003 - We trade a well regarded closer (Wags) for a bunch of crap (Duckworth, Bukholz, E. Astacio) Jan 2004 - lose Colin Porter to FA (hitting about .314 with St. Louis in relief in Center Field - freaking CENTER FIELD) June 2004 - lost R. Stone (not the best, but I trusted him more than Weathers) DOGGIE - we trade a good outfield talent for what? David Weathers? Jeremy Griffiths? Who knows but I think I know. Carlos Beltran. Oddly, we desparately needed relief pitching and yet we cannot find a reliever anywhere as we hit the trade deadline. Therefore, what looks like a good deal is clearly too incomplete. So, with Beltran likely gone, all we've really netted out of this deal will be losing Octavio Dotel and a prospect in John Buck. This should tell you something about Hunsicker - his verifiably best deal of the recent era was back in November of 1997 - when he got Moises Alou. Of course, that was only one month after granting free agency to Luis Gonzalez - a cheaper player who played and won a world series. Alou was lost to FA in 2001. Mike Lamb for DeLeon may be another steal. Somehow I see us fudging this up before its done.
Actually we got Brad Ausmus, Doug Brocail and O. Dotel for Hampton and Roger Cedeno by the net of things. I'd still take Hampton and R. Cedeno over those two.
You do realize that the Cardinals have thought so highly of Porter and his .314 average that he has been in the minors since mid-May? In 2002 the Astros had the BEST offensive production from the 3rd base position (at least in the NL) while Castilla was hitting .232. Ensberg was better offensively last year than Vinny. This year Castilla's stats are skewed by the Coors Field factor. Are you honestly telling us that you would not have sacrificed Loretta for Kent after the 2002 season? Loretta had a good month with Houston, but I doubt any team in the major leagues (especially a perrenial contender like Houston) would have chosen Loretta over Kent) Are you also saying the Astros should have kept Lima? He was signed to a nice big contract by Houston and failed miserably in 2000 (6.0+ ERA) and 2001 (7.0+ ERA). He followed that up in 2002 with a 7.77 ERA and 4.91 last year. Even with his glorified 10-3 record this year, his ERA is over 4. Mlicki was the best Houston could do You also think the Randy Johnson trade was horrible? That trade energized this town and Houston was regarded as the team to beat for the NL title. Unfortunately their bats failed again in the playoffs. Are you one of those fans who would been complaining that the Astros didn't pull the trigger on a late season deal to get them over the hump had they NOT made the Johnson trade?
I find it extremely comical when people accuse a writer of being bias and then turn around and do the same exact thing! Gunn, Get them!!!
Revisionist history is an ugly thing. Yes. He was worth it. And calling John Halama an "exceptional prospect" is a joke. He was 26 at the time, a soft-tossing lefty with intermitent control - hence his gopherball problems. He's now on his fourth major league team. Carlos Guillen was positively below average his first couple years in the majors - now he's having a massive season - for a team that's not the Mariners. What'd we end up giving the Mariners get for Johnson? One great season from Garcia, one decent season and a fat load of crap for all the rest. We got Ausmus back because Meluskey at the catcher position was a nightmare, almost as much as Cedeno was in the outfield. By the way - did you happen do notice the kind of numbers he put up after that deal? He's had horrible years until this year. What were we supposed to get for a guy making 7M a year, who'd just set a NL record for homers given up in a season while posting a STELLAR 6.65 ERA. I'll say that again - 6.65. That's not attractive to any team. No, I wouldn't want Castilla at all. This is like the fourth or fifth guy you've mentioned who's been positively blah most of the time after the Astros released him. Because he was just a rental player. Calling Ward a MLB player is getting a little loose with the language now isn't it? Ok, I liked Linebrink, so I agree with that. He was a righty who hamstrung lefties and wasn't completely incompetent against righties. It didn't look like a big deal at the time, but he's been marvelous for San Diego. Villone is a career journeyman, come on now. Wagner was a massively overpaid loudmouth - and Bucholz is a highly regarded prospect. He's 11 for 35 for the season. And according to ESPN, no longer on the Card's major league roster. Four years ago he was a good outfield talent, now he's just a salary albatross with an ass that balloons almost at the same rate that his contract does. Why do you think he was so cheap? The Astros had given him every opportunity to be a star, and he was positively mediocre for seven seasons. And who did we replace him with? A guy who had a good argument that he deserved the World Series MVP Award. We got Alou's last really good seasons before he descended into mediocrity. and He wasn't that much more expensive than Gonzales, like one million a year for the length of his contract.
