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Just the ticket

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Batman Jones, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    I'm Batman Jones and I approve this message. And its implications for the next twelve years.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/opinion/keller-just-the-ticket.html

    OP-ED COLUMNIST
    Just the Ticket
    By BILL KELLER
    Published: January 8, 2012

    THE beginning of a new year is a time for resolutions, and Hillary Clinton’s admirers are already busily, lovingly resolving on her behalf. On one sideline, her friends tell me that after a few years of hyperactive globetrotting what she really needs is to put her feet up and dictate another volume of her memoirs while nagging Chelsea to deliver grandchildren. (“She’s tired; she needs some time off,” her husband told ABC.) At the other extreme, a couple of Democratic consultants, Patrick Caddell and Douglas Schoen, propose to draft her right now as the 2012 Democratic presidential candidate, whether she likes it or not. (“Not only is Mrs. Clinton better positioned to win in 2012 than Mr. Obama, but she is better positioned to govern if she does,” they wrote in The Wall Street Journal.) Other helpful devotees have noticed that Brown University is looking for a new president, or have imagined her creating a clone of the Clinton Global Initiative focused on empowering women. Or maybe Ruth Bader Ginsburg will decide to put her feet up, opening a seat on the Supreme Court.

    Hillary Clinton is 64 years old, with a Calvinist work ethic, the stamina of an Olympian, an E.Q. to match her I.Q., and the political instincts of a Clinton. She has an impressive empathic ability — invaluable in politics or statecraft — to imagine how the world looks to an ally or adversary. She listens, and she learns from her mistakes. She was a perfectly plausible president four years ago, and that was before she demonstrated her gifts as a diplomatic snake-charmer. (Never mind Pakistan and Libya, I’m talking about the Obama White House.) She is, says Gallup, the most admired woman in America for the 10th year in a row, laps ahead of, in order, Oprah Winfrey, Michelle Obama, Sarah Palin and Condoleezza Rice; her approval rating of 64 percent is the highest of any political figure in the country.

    So it’s too early to hang up the big ambition. And a lot of us would be deeply disappointed in her if she did. This would be none of our business if she had taken the off-ramp after her time as first lady. (Nobody is thinking very hard about what’s next for Laura Bush.) But she moved on to the Senate, to a near-miss presidential campaign, and to a credible term as secretary of state. She raised our expectations.

    The proposal to draft her in place of President Obama this year is preposterous. It exaggerates his vulnerability and discounts Hillary’s loyalty. But the idea that she should replace Joe Biden as Obama’s running mate in 2012 is something else. It has been kicking around on the blogs for more than a year without getting any traction, mainly because it has been authoritatively, emphatically dismissed by Hillary, Biden and Team Obama.

    It’s time to take it seriously.

    I know the arguments against this scenario, and we’ll get to those. But the arguments in favor are as simple as one-two-three. One: it does more to guarantee Obama’s re-election than anything else the Democrats can do. Two: it improves the chances that, come next January, he will not be a lame duck with a gridlocked Congress but a rejuvenated president with a mandate and a Congress that may be a little less forbidding. Three: it makes Hillary the party’s heir apparent in 2016. If she sits out politics for the next four years, other Democrats (yes, Governor Cuomo, we see your hand up) will fill the void.

    She would bring to this year’s campaign a missing warmth and some of the voltage that has dissipated as Obama moved from campaigning to governing. What excites is not just the prospect of having a woman a heartbeat — and four years — away from the presidency, although she certainly embodies the aspirations of many women. It’s the possibility that the first woman at the top would have qualifications so manifest that her first-ness was a secondary consideration.

    The biggest obstacle to this scenario is, of course, President Obama, reinforced by the people around him. The Obamas have long regarded the Clintons as representing the tawdry side of politics: the deal-cutting, the calculating, the endless schmoozing, the permanent campaign — in short, the things that this professorial president could have used more of in his first term. The Clintons — Bill, at least — have tended to see Obama as politically naïve, steeped in youthful arrogance, a loner, happier to be right than successful. The mistrust may have abated a little, as Hillary has proved herself the most faithful of allies. And Bill has been a pretty disciplined defender of this administration, though his endorsements tend to come with a helping of paternalistic (and public) advice. But the Obamas and Clintons remain a marriage of convenience.

    The Obama inner circle believes the president doesn’t need Hillary to win a second term. Just now, when the Republican field looks like a bug-spattered windshield and the most likely nominee strikes many in his own party as an empty suit, that confidence is understandable. But Democrats should not get too cocky. Mitt Romney, as I’ve argued before, has a case to make to voters and the resources to make it. In Iowa, exploiting the Supreme Court’s laissez-faire ruling on campaign spending, he brought down Newt Gingrich with an “independent” attack machine of considerable firepower.

    Moreover, even if Obama can win without Hillary, there’s a lot to be said for running up the score. If she can do in 2012 what Obama did in 2008 — animate that feeling of historic possibility — the pair can lift some House and Senate candidates along with them. One reason Republicans did so well in the 2010 Congressional elections is that they overcame the gender gap and carried women voters 51 to 49. Those voters will flock back to Hillary, the more so if the Republican ticket is locked into a culture-war agenda. So, by the way, will Hispanic voters, securing such endangered states as Florida, New Mexico, Nevada and Colorado.

    Vice President Clinton would be a formidable asset in governing as well as campaigning, both as a political calculator and as an emissary to Capitol Hill. She has, to put it mildly, an ability to navigate the world of powerful, problematic men.

    In the event that Obama has the good sense (or, if the economy fails to perk up, the sense of desperation) to offer her the vice president’s slot, some of her closest friends will implore her to decline. They will tell her that it means tarnishing her reputation by playing the second’s traditional role of campaign attack dog. But that needn’t be the case. Like Romney, the Democrats can outsource to a super-PAC the wet work that used to be the job of the running mate, letting Hillary stick to the high road. And whatever her friends say, there’s no way the dutiful Methodist schoolgirl would turn down an I-need-you from the president.

    THAT leaves the delicate question of ditching Joe Biden. He is not a dazzling campaigner, and — five years Hillary’s senior — he is not Obama’s successor. But he is a loyal and accomplished public servant who deserves to be treated with honor.

    A political scientist I know proposes the following choreography: In the late winter or early spring, Hillary steps down as secretary of state to rest and write that book. The president assigns Biden — the former chairman of Senate Foreign Relations — to add State to his portfolio, making him the most powerful vice president in history. Come the party convention in September, Obama swallows his considerable pride and invites a refreshed Hillary to join the ticket. Biden keeps State. The musicians play “Happy Days Are Here Again” as if they really mean it.

    Of course, this is more exciting if it’s a surprise, and now I’ve spoiled it. Sorry. But not as sorry as I’ll be if — as I fear — it’s just a fantasy.
     
  2. bnb

    bnb Contributing Member

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    Man...I disagree. I was a very strong supporter of Hillary in 2008, but think she'd be a poor choice for VP now.

    She'd invigorate too many republicans at at time their candidates are putting them to sleep. I think she possibly destabilizes Obama -- he's got to stand on his own strength, not appear to need propping up. Her VP stint would be a clear play for 2016. Too blatant and too soon for that. And Obama doesn't need an heir apparent sitting as VP who was specifically selected for that role. Plus she needs to earn a nomination in 2016 if it comes to that. Bidden won't run, so she doesn't come in at a disadvantage to other candidates I don't see her attracting support for Obama that couldn't otherwise be brought on, and she possibly loses some of his more vulnerable support from those frustrated by their perception of his pragmatism.

    I think Sec State's a good spot for her. She's effective there. It has more power then VP. She should campaign actively for President Obama, but stay off the ticket.
     
  3. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    She's leaving State either way at the end of Obama's first term, she's already said so. And Biden has always wanted that job.

    I don't want Hillary only because I think she'd give Democrats the best chance to win (though she would) and not only because I think she'd give us the best chance to win 2016 and 2020 (though she would), but because I think she'd be a great VP and because Obama needs a jump-start and because she would give him one. In the election yes but more importantly in getting things done as president.

    Not to mention: first woman VP and most likely first woman president. And she's waaaaaay more likely to run in 2016 if as an incumbent VP. Otherwise I think she's likely to sit out.

    To me this is just good for everyone but the Republicans, many of whom (by the way) like her.

    And she's not hardly going to drag down the ticket as she is, as mentioned in the article, the most popular politician in America at 64%.

    I look at the GOP stage and I think I must be in some kind of crazy dream when I realize we've had white men as president for, what, 232(?) years in a row? And now, our very first (half) black president will definitely run against another white man? I would friggin love to vote for a black man and a woman on the same ticket. It's not just past time, it's more than 200 years past time.

    This would be win-win-win-win-win.
     
  4. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Nope. Biden has a wealth of federal and foreign policy experience and is probably a pretty good voice to have in the room, you also risk showing a lack of unity or admitting a mistake the last time.

    Hillary Rodham Clinton is done with big time electoral politics. Her daughter's married, her husband's avoided scandal for 12 years and she leveraged her biggest campaign into the best job in the world (diplomat for a rich, powerful country that just ended a war).

    The PUMAs gotta just re-group and look for the next generation of female leaders. And if (for some) it's really just about getting a white woman in the White House, bite your tongue and start looking at some moderate, northern Republicans.
     
  5. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    Seems like a needless gamble to me.
     
  6. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    VP?

    The office of the vice presidency "is not worth a bucket of warm spit."
     
  7. BigBenito

    BigBenito Member

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    He should offer it to Palin. Heads on both sides would explode.
    It is 2012, what is the worst that could happen?
     
  8. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Sort of for it, it would lend some excitment between the two fakey centrists, Obama the fake liberal and Romney the fake right winger.

    However, I think we don't need another clone who is a go along to get along supporter of the military industrial complex in the White House. So I hate to see Hillary have a leg up on someone who could potentially break out of the imperialist consensus.
     
    #8 glynch, Jan 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  9. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Absolutely agree, Batman. While I like Biden, and think he's been a good VP, the President needs to shake things up and, most importantly, unite a party behind him that is troubled, upset, and in some quarters, damned close to revolt over some of his policies. Clinton would go a long way towards clearing that serious political problem up prior to the election. Obviously, she would go a long way to bring huge numbers of women to vote for the ticket who might otherwise sit home, or possibly vote for someone else. Clinton brings foreign policy credentials after a successful term as Secretary of State, and she's more than solid on domestic policy, and respected in the Senate. Along with other assets, the most important might be that she would bring Bill Clinton completely on board for the campaign, and there isn't a more savvy politico, or a more savvy campaigner in the business.

    So yeah, I'm for that. Guess I could read the column now. I didn't get past "Hillary for VP" before I had to agree with the idea.
     
  10. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Doubt it happens but can't rule it out. What would trouble me the most is the setup for 2016 where the Dems should reach for someone fresh instead of settling for Hillary.
     
  11. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member

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    She accepts.
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    Andy Cuomo?

    ;)
     
  13. bnb

    bnb Contributing Member

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    Hillary will be almost 70 by 2016. I think her time has passed. Cuomo's 10 yrs younger. And I'm sure there are other (mostly white) guys also gunning for the job. The timing just wasn't right for the first woman pres in 2008. There was a better candidate there. I think she would have made a great president. But sometimes the breaks don't go your way.

    And I think her current popularity is partly due to her relative low profile. If she was on a ticket the attack dogs would be out.
     
  14. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    I'm all for it.

    Hoping for a better successor to Obama in 2016 than Hillary is a HUGE gamble. I also cannot see any way where this hurts Obama's re-election chances. I'm not sold that it will help (although I lean that way) but there is no way it will hurt.
     
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Batman, I know you love Hillary, but come on. You really think she is a strong bet for a 2016 nomination?

    She'd be 69 on election day in 2016, just 3 years young than McCain was in 2008 when everyone mocked him for being way too old to be president.

    On top of that, she's aging poorly.

    Here she was in 08:
    [​IMG]

    Here she is today:
    [​IMG]

    In 2016 she is going to look like an old 69 years old. That's going to hurt her.
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Were you asleep during the primaries, when Obama and Hillary were going toe to toe? You must have been, because Batman was up in arms about her campaign, and her, pretty often. But that's politics. Fight a hard campaign, and then put it behind you. As for her age, I just don't see that as an issue. Oh, it might be an issue to Hillary by then, we'd have to wait on that to see, but Reagan's age didn't prevent him from getting two terms from the American public (although I did what I could to prevent it!). As for your images, I bet I could find a better looking one that's current, at least if I wasn't going to lunch. And don't forget modern science. They can do wonders now. All you need is a two week vacation, out of the public eye, and you've lost ten years.

    I love the idea. I just don't know if the two principals do... Barack and Hillary.
     
  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I guess I misunderstood his OP if he doesn't love Hillary because he sure sounds like it.

    Reagan's age didn't stop him in the 80s, but it hurt McCain more recently and he's not a woman. I've seen a lot of her news conferences the past year and she is not aging well.
     
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Batman may have disliked her during the primaries. After they are over, you unite behind the nominee. I don't think Batman (and he can speak for himself, of course) disliked Ms. Clinton before the primaries, and he may not have believed that she would be a strong backer of Obama right after Obama had clinched it, but I recall him quickly praising her for getting behind him in his run for the White House. I think Batman and I are on the same page with Hillary, and while this is most likely pure speculation, and not a trial balloon by her people, I really like the idea. I was for that ticket before Obama selected a VP. While I liked Biden (still do), I thought then that an Obama/Clinton ticket was the way to go.
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Obama has delegated a lot of authority to Biden and let him run with it.

    I think their relationship is a little too cozy. When reading about the out-of-control kill order/drone program, one reporter attributted Biden for calling the shots (while Obama admin took the credit).

    I just don't know what Hillary is/will do anymore. She was effective as senator partly because she knew when to make relationships and leverage them. That won't mean a lot to me if it's not ideals I want to believe in though, as Obama's compromises has reminded me of it over and over again.

    I'm not sure how to vote with a higher standard for President anymore. At this point, it's Not-A-Crazy-Ass Republican or Not-At-All.
     
  20. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    In either of two instances you would in effect be voting for a Crazy-Ass-Republican.
     

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