July 4th Thread: Is the Idea of "America" in trouble

What I mean is that colleges have become nothing more than job training centers. Kids graduate and they know all about the profession they're interested in but they can't find Iraq on a damn map. High schools have become places where kids study to pass an arbitrary test instead of learning to think critically. They study and work to pass a test that is completely meaningless the second they're in the real world. Also, a lot of schools have apparently cut out music and art as part of their programs. That's incredible to me really. I'm sure most of us on this board all had music, art, and PE as regular classes in school. That's all part of a well rounded education. Kids aren't getting that education anymore.

I saw a report a while back that said half of Detroit high schoolers don't finish high school. HALF? That's ridiculous. People talk about the impact of education on the work force but the impact on society is just as important. How else do you explain someone as obviously incompetent as George Bush getting one term, much less two terms? How do you explain Americans consistently voting against their own interests? How else do you explain Americans being more interested in Brittney and Brad Pitt then what's going on in the world? Americans are stupid.

 

It's not doing a great job at that either...

 

In the spirit of the 4th of July....I'll say the Excited States of 'Merica is JUST FINE, THANK YOU!

Innovation, entrepreneurship, and vision have guided the US from an agricultural country to an industrial one and then on to services. A few blips along the way, for sure, but continually succeeding in areas that were not even imagined when road looked to get bumpy.

The doom and gloomers come and get their say every few years, and there's sure a lot that can and needs to be improved -- but I wouldn't count the US out for a long time yet. Who's going to take their place? Europe? China? India? Hardly. They have problems of their own.

So put on your lapel pins, spark up the barby, crack open another beer and get yourself some fireworks that blow up real good.

Happy Independence day guys! Kapaya!!!

 

So we're about to have an election in which we will have a choice between two men that, although they may turn out to be bad heads of government, are both shining beacons of what is possible in America and we have a thread asking if the idea of America is in trouble?

No. The idea of America is alive and well.

 

The United States are going to be fine. Evidence: Joey Chesnutt beats Kobayashi by adapting better.

 

Not unreasonable, but again I think that if you look at the facts, instead of some vague memory of what you were told about way back when by your Grandfather, it is clear that we haven't declined.

The article talks about language cohesion. Well the fact is that prior to WWI approximately 1/2 the country spoke a language other than English. In terms of language cohesion, we are well above where we were back in the day.

As far as understanding what the Declaration of Independence means, before the very late 1950's, education focused almost exclusively on rote memorization. If you had asked that question to a 1940's classroom they wouldn't have even understood what you wanted. Understanding meaning wasn't even an intended outcome of the education system.

The article talks about only 10% understanding this, or 5% understanding that. To have a decline, you need a reduction from figures of the past. But the article doesn't present those figures. Where's the decline? I'm reasonably confidant that that 10% would have been something like 5% and that 5% would have been near 2% 75 years ago.

You can look at other measures of education, like literacy rates. We are at an all time low. In the 1930's the rate of illiteracy was about 10x what it is today. In the 19th century, you had 10-20% of the population unable to do even basic reading - completely illiterate. That is completely unheard of today. That is the literacy rate a third world country. A very poorly educated one.

Almost all of the complaints raised by the article rely on the assumption of a Norman Rockwell past which didn't exist. If you ask for hard statistics, I'm damn sure the paper's authors will look at you cross-eyed like the question never crossed their minds. There is simply no empirical proof of a decline relative to the past whatsoever.

Finally, going back to the thesis - that we are declining because of a lack of social cohesion and resultant lack of civic pride - I think that the basic premise is unsupportable. Looking at the decline of empires, as far as I can see, no Empire has ever been ended as a result of a lack of civic pride at home. It’s almost always a result of economic dissolution and mismanagement, and excessive internal naval-gazing self absorption that kills Empires, at least in the cases that I can think of.

 

U.S.A.

 

I have taught college and university classes since the 70's, and the steady decline in basic skills is appalling. There are a few students in each class that equal the skill levels of past generations, but their numbers are shrinking. Ask any teacher at any level who has taught for twenty years or more and see what they say. The changes in the public morality are stunning. The pace of life has quickened. The "Beaver Cleaver" shows of early TV and Rockwell's art may idealize the fifties, but that period did exist, I was there. The ideas and practices of that period really seem to threaten "moderns" who want to believe that the "latest is the greatest" and the "newest is the truest" and that a more pleasant period of American life never existed. The fifties were a great time to be alive, not perfect, but the source of many fond memories. And, furthermore, the 1957 Chevy has all the present day little "econoboxs" beat by miles.

 

Interesting take Solid. (solid take?).

My impression from working with college kids today is that they are much more focussed, knowledgeble, insightful and dedicated then my cohorts ever were in the 80's. Even if their spelling sucks.

Maybe you're just getting old . Or maybe we were just a lazy and confused lot.

 

are you guys immigrants, or Americans? bashing your own kids, laughable. where has the loyalty gone from the baby boomers in this nation?

the people from ya'lls era are the reason the eduction is the way it is, and then you have the nerve to go bash the youth for it. Laughable.

 

I am not bashing the kids, I have one and she is outstanding in many ways, so is her husband. The decline in BASIC skills is an observable fact in the classroom. You are right that my generation created "modern" education which may or may not be as bad or as good as any of us think. The real problem is growing family disorganization. And the answer to your first question is BOTH!

 

Any openings in your school?

 

I'm up here in East Texas at my Mom's. She lives on private lake and let me tell you, as long as ther are blondes in bikini's pearched on the back of a high powered speedboats, America is still a great country.

 

Nice post but I respectfully disagree. As was already mentioned, the 50's were great only if you were a white man. Nobody else in America, as a group, would agree with that statement.

I'll agree that if you had to pick one decade, the 90's was the best. Good economy. No war. Generally peaceful for all.

 

No war in the 90's? Guess you forget about the Gulf War, and all the other minor conflicts that the United States was involved with in Africa and Mid. East

 

The Gulf War and these other minor conflicts compare quite favorably with Korea.

 

the 90s were the height of the american ideal overall. 2000s the beginning of a long journey downhill

 

No.


U.S.A.

...forever.

 

Lets see.

Gulf War vs WWI. I take GW.
okay.
Gulf War vs WWI. I take GW.
Gulf War vs Korean war. GW.
Gulf War vs Vietnam. GW.
Gulf War vs Afghanastan. GW.
Gulf War vs Gulf II. GW.
Gulf War vs vs a fight with my big brother. I still take GW.

Relatively speaking, the 90's represented the highest point for the most # of Americans.

The 50's can't be, in my mind, cause you had blacks fearful of their lives everyday in the South. Plus women still had limited life options outside the home.

 

I think the article is more concerned with the cohesion of the ideas of the USA since the Declaration and ratification of the Constitution and how they are not being taught as well. This I can attest to at major universities, where American History courses are scant, rarely taken, and hardly a prerequisite outside of Texas and Arkansas Public Colleges. These ideas have been taught well in classes from Kindergarten-post graduate education.