Seriously! He's not a Rocket anymore. Move this to the dish. These convos are starting to feel like we're picking on scabs to keep the wound open.
If he gets it.. it will be because the media simply decided they wanted to reward a guard this time.... Simmons is a great defender, but has no argument as the best defender in the league though.... He's not even the best defender on his team... Also Gobert has been the best... The media might not wanted to give it to him again, but if the Jazz really finish as 1st or 2nd in the tougher conference... How do they not? Especially when he's the only elite defender in the lineup on the Jazz... Royce is a good defender, but he's not elite.
Ben Simmons absolutely is a star... He's not a superstar though, but he's young and with him we'd have the potential for a future star teamup... Wood isn't a scrub so that would be a good pairing and potentially an attractive situation for a star to join later on.
Mike Conley says hello. His defensive RAPTOR score is only behind Clint (best), Gobert, Embiid and Turner.
You may be happy, but in regards to the original post and the point you made.... Majority of the people out there view Simmons as a star so the writer of that article did have a point.
That's one compilation stat sure... And it defeats your own point as Simmons isn't there and Embiid is in front of Conley.
RAPTOR is good but still ONE metric. Conley has better defensive on/off than even Gobert who is top 5 defensive player. Conley is also #4 in Win Share and has +11.9 net rating (only Jazz higher is Gobert at +13.4). Simmons leads NBA in disruptive plays (deflections + steals + loose balls recovered), he creates offense via defense. Simmons can also lockdown 1-5. No other DPOY candidate has the ability to do both at elite level like Simmons. Even 76ers HC picks Simmons over Embiid for DPOY. And Embiid has been playing out of his mind.
I never said he didn't have a point. I just noted it was dumb. Gravity exists. The sky is blue. Stars are needed to win NBA rings. Got it, lol.
It wasn't dumb since that was the point... The Rockets could've acquired a star in Simmons with that deal instead of draft capital and "flexibility".... If one of those picks in the deal end up being a star better than Simmons, then it was a good deal, but that's an if.... A luck of the draw... We'll see what happens.... Hopefully we do.
You've already mentioned RAPTOR Across the board... It's clear Gobert has been the best defender this season.... He's also tops in defensive rating and defensive win shares for the whole league... Gobert also is #1 in contested FGA in the league.... And opponents shoot 42% against him. IDK where you saw Mike Conley as #4 in win shares or defensive winshares cuz he's not. That's cool... Harden also has led the league in those categories in past seasons and been top 3 in steals+deflections+loose balls recovered... That's not a stat that determines whose the best defender in the league... Yes Simmons is an elite defender, but his actual overall defensive impact isn't at the top of the league nor is it the most impactful on his own team.... You've mentioned RAPTOR where Embiid, Gobert, and multiple other players rank above Simmons... Embiid is also 5th in defensive rating, defensive win shares, and contested shots... Simmons isn't in the top 10 in any of these categories. Lockdown 1-5 is a massive overstatement... Yes Simmons is a versatile defender, but versatility doesn't equate to being the best.... Yeah his coach has him as DPOY and I'm sure Doc has Embiid as MVP too.... That's wholly irrelevant...lol
You disregard that Doc considers Sommons to be the hands down DPOY even though Embiid has the better Raptor score? You dont seem to accept possibility of context. Stats are excellent but basketball is not played with numbers. Numbers are tools and tools can be used properly or not. And if you watched the 76ers vs. Jazz you'd have seen Simmons kicking Gobert's ass on offense and defense.
Yeah I disregard what a coach thinks about their own players getting an award.... I'm sure he'd like if both of his players could get an award... One an MVP and the other a DPOY lol... As I said that's wholly irrelevant. You were using stats to make your argument.... The stats don't support Simmons as DPOY. It's been well known for many years that a top tier rim protector will always be more impactful to a teams overall defense than an elite perimeter defender... They generally affect an opponents scoring and way more shots in more ways.... Whether it's post defense, blocking shots, or the often rotating help defense against penetration and on the weak side.... And the numbers just so happen to consistently bear that out.
DPOY has been around way before advanced stats. And everyone knows that defensive stats favor players who play with the best defensive players, less individualistic than offensive stats. In modern era, WS has been the metric used most often to determine DPOY, not Raptor. But counting stats, especially BLK and STL still matter. Most often centers have to average 2+ blocks or smaller players have to average 2+ steals. So your understanding of NBA history is lacking in this area. Leading NBA in steals is not the be all or end all but it is a factor. In fact, Giannis is 1st to win DPOY while averaging only 1 steal (and only 1 block). Usually DPOY dominates in 1 of these areas. And both Draymond and Kawhi (2×) have won DPOY in last decade averaging 2+ steals and with a WS under 10. Even Gobert won it once with 8.1 WS. But the bottom line is the play on the court. Which player becomes a defensive liability when they are forced to guard the perimeter? Which player has given up multiple 40+ points vs. scorers they were assigned to defend? Which player is literally hunted by opposing scorers. Not Ben Simmons. Gobert may anchor the best defense but he is not the best defender. And FYI, Doc has coached some excellent defensive players AND championship defensive teams. He does not have the reputation of lobbying for awards, he means what he says.
On a side note, Thybulle maybe the best on ball wing defender in the NBA. My god this guy is a freaking god like defensive Porsche. The Rockets could have had arguably the best two wing defensive duo in the league to team up with KPJ and C Wood! . Simmons, Thybulle and Tate would have been good stuff. Now gotta tank hard
No one claimed otherwise and that's largely irrelevant in terms of today.... Yes there are certain stats that benefit players playing with great defenders, but even this has varying degrees to how much that's the case.... Individual stats like contested shots and contested shot FG% not being one of them though. Defensive rating is largely impacted by big men who are great rim protectors and teammates benefit from there presence in these metrics.... Gobert has FAR and AWAY the best defensive rating in the league at 101 and that's also the biggest discrepancy in the league and on his team; particularly among starters where the next closest is Royce and Conley at 109. Sure... RAPTOR is a fairly new stat, but you brought it up... Defensive Winshares do not favor Simmons case for DPOY either. BLKs do somewhat... especially in past eras, but that's primarily if not exclusively in regards to big men getting the award and I've already mentioned how much rim protection outweighs perimeter defense and blocks would fit into that aspect.... Neither of those two stats are exactly a great indicator of the best defensive players in the league, but that's especially the case with steals. You're bringing up blocks now, but that wasn't in the original point nor would it suit your argument.... You mentioned steals+deflections+loose balls recovered in your case for Simmons. This would be your understanding lacking here.... I didn't want to have to cook you, but now I'm gonna have to hit you with some facts. Yes leading the NBA in steals isn't the be all or end all... In fact it's virtually NEVER a determining factor at all and history supports this is pretty consistently the case... It's cool to lead the league in steals and have that on your resume, but it does very little if any in regards to winning the DPOY. Harden led the league in steals before. Curry led the league in steals before. Iverson led the league in steals before. TJ McConnell currently leads the league in steals this season(not even a candidate obviously) You can go down the long list.... These dudes rightfully are never in consideration nor should they have been in consideration WHATSOEVER for DPOY because of steal averages. Draymond in 2017 didn't win because of steals nor was anyone else among the league leaders in steals a serious candidate because of it... Draymond won because he was number 1 or top 2 in the league in multiple defensive impact stats and his team was at the top of the league which can also be a factor. Draymond in 2017 He was basically number #1 in defensive rating at: 99 He was #2 in defensive winshares. And he was #1 in DBPM. Kawhi in 2016 was top 2 or top 3 in multiple defensive impact stats Kawhi was number 3 in defensive rating at: 96 He was #2 in defensive win shares And he was #2 in DPBM. Kawhi in 2015 He was #1 in defensive rating at: 96 He was #6 in defensive win shares And he was #2 in DBPM. Now if you look at this season... Ben Simmons is NOWHERE close to impacting the game defensively on the level of these guys in their respective seasons or this season relative to the rest of the league. IDK why you brought up Gobert's WS when you should be looking at defensive winshares and defensive rating. In both seasons he won the award he was either #1 or #2 in defensive rating(2018) or defensive winshares(2019). And obviously he's #1 in defensive rating and #1 in defensive winshares this season. This isn't even an argument.... Perimeter defense isn't as impactful as top tier rim protection.... The only thing more impactful is a player whose elite at both... That's Draymond Green... That's not Ben Simmons. who plays with one of the best rim protectors in the league behind him... Whose also a more impactful defender than him. A coaches opinion on one of his own players getting an award is.... IRRELEVANT.... Especially in regards to determining who should get it... This should go without saying... PERIOD.
Perk LOL... He shouldn't win it and I don't think he'll win it, but Simmons winning DPOY would be the most narrative driven award since Russ winning MVP in 2017 and Russ was actually more deserving for that, than Simmons is for DPOY. The commentator here is correct if he's talking about Perk and anyone who has him as a frontrunner for DPOY.
