judicial watch: kerry should remove silver star from website

Good point, Heck I have not heard either side say much about what they are going to do to improve it.

Where is Ross Perot when you need him?

DD

 

Sorry, I don't see "kerry slandered the vets".

Do you think it was wrong of Kerry to come home from Vietnam and tell Congress we should end the war? Ask the American people if anyone knows why we're in the war to begin with? Tell Congress of the atrocities and war crimes he witnessed? And don't play the "Oh it never happened, We'd never do that" game. We all know god da*ned well that it did happen. Kerry didn't turn his back on his fellow soldiers. He turned his back on the administration that got them in that f***ed up war to begin with. He tried to get his fellow soldiers out of that hell hole before more lives were lost in vain. That one hell of a noble thing to do in my book. And you can bet that he did it knowing full well that some people would never let him forget it.

I am not trying to be abrasive basso, you are actually one of the sanest republicans I've met. I like reading your posts because you almost always present some facts, as opposed to most GOP fanatics. But here I disagree. As would a lot of other veterans, IMHO. I work in an office with a lot of vets, some of whom are pro-bush and some of whom are against. Likewise, some of those are afraid to bring up the atrocities and the memories, and some who are able to realize that what happened shouldn't have been, and wasn't necessarily their fault. It is difficult for some of them, and I respect that and hold my toungue when they lash out against Kerry for "turning on them".

I personally think Kerry is a bigger man for speaking out against what he thought was wrong.

I look forward to your reply.

 

Kerry should have done like Bush did. He should have claimed that all the records were already released. Then later after he made that claim, he could release some more.

 

I don't know that Kerry said 'every' soldier committed atrocities. I've never seen that quote.

What Kerry said that many did was take part in free fire zones, which were common and standard order during the Vietnam conflict. He said at the time that he believed those free fire zones were atrocities. So saying huge numbers of vets committed those 'war crimes' was consistent with Kerry's position. The chopping off of ears, rape, and all that were things that Kerry was told. He never claimed that every soldier in Nam committed those kinds of atrocities which is what people are trying to act like he said.

Kerry did say that in his youthful passion about the topic he went further than he would have today.

 

WTF? Fake atrocities? Basso, this is ridiculous.

Did criminal actions take place during the war? Yes. Were those criminal actions performed by US Servicemen? Yes. Therefore, yes, they were war criminals. But Kerry wasn't coming back to say "Bob Jones - he's a criminal. Fred Murphy - he's a criminal too. Lock my fellow veterans up". He came back to say "this war and the policies behind it are wrong, it was started on a false premise, and criminal policies are being handed down as 'orders'." Kinda like the one in Iraq now - false premises (WMDs), and criminal policies (Abu Gharib).

John kerry came back, and joined a group of veterans called the "Winter Soldiers" and testifies to congress as a representative of that group. To wit, his opening statement was:

"I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony...."
(http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html)

He came back from Vietnam, and spoke Truth to Power. He spoke against an unpopular war. He pulled back the curtain on the atrocities that were occuring every day in 'Nam.

He did the right thing.

We are asked this year to decide between a decorated war hero; who came back and spoke against the war he fought in, and a coward whose father got him a cushy spot in a champagne squadron, who couldnt even bother to show up between lines of coke.

Why does this matter? You are so wrapped up in hatred for anything non-republican it has turned you into a shill. I seriously doubt you have any idea what the GOP stands for anymore. It's just another form of sports to you.

OK. I can go with you on this one. Kerry did kind of get himself into this by touting his service so much. Of course he actually has service to tout, so this irks republicans...

Inconsistent? How?

I would retort that its a "dangerous posture" to act on faulty and corrupted data to inititate a war that resolves nothing while breeding an international hatred doomed to create a whole new generation of "murderous fanatics".

But Bush says maybe we can't win it... Oh wait, now he says we can. Who knows?

The "think of the children" argument is stupid. So we're saving the children by enslaving them to future hatred and an even larger federal debt?

Since you are now making unsubstantiated and hateful claims (resorted to standard GOP tactics, I see), I'll make one too:

in bush's case, it seems he'd rather be snorting coke, or taking a vacation, or running a doomed business backed with Saudi money then actually resolving the real terror problem or fixing the US economy.

 

What exactly are you trying to say? That this is somehow a bad thing? That acknowledging the full brutality and horror of this pointless war is a bad thing? That *gasp* speaking out against truthful injustices and inhumanity is wrong?

Well, I guess you are a Bush supporter....

Nevertheless, this still doesn't sound like he either
a) made up atrocities.
or
b) blamed all veterans.

Heck he admitted to atrocities himself. Your accusation is false.

 

Sorry about that. Truly. The statements you made were a little one-sided though...

I understand the anger, I just don't think that it's justified. I don't see where Kerry did something wrong. He pointed out the barbarous actions that led him to believe the Vietnam war was a wasteful and unnecesary conflict. Did anyone recieve punishment as a result of Kerry "calling them out"?

I, like Franks, don't consider myself a republican or democrat. I don't choose sides without evaluating each side. I've looked at each party this time and made my choice. I have a lot of issues with Kerry too, but I think he is far superior to Bush.

 

You need to either stop lying or educate yourself as to what Kerry said.

He specifically said that atrocities were committed by thousands of soldiers, not every soldier. In addition, the ones he branded as "war criminals" were the ones in charge who set up the "free fire zones" that made these atrocities possible in the first place.