Judge Rules Reciting Pledge in Public School is Unconstitutional

Madam, I'm Adam

 

I love to empty "things". If you meet God on the road, kill him.

 

Sometimes that's a good thing.

 

You know you Pat Robertsons are funny.


If the pledge said "One nation, under Allah" you guys would be screaming to the courts to remove it. Even though Allah refers to GOD. I would like to know, if you VERY same Christians would be ok with it saying "Under Allah"? Since you want to keep Gods name in it so badly. If NOT then its not about using god generically for religions as much as it is for using Christianity, and you are now rebuffed in stating otherwise.

I am a Christian, probably a very bad one, but I believe in God, and Jesus. I dont think God sits on his thrown in heaven, looking down at the U.S. hoping to keep his name in a pledge devoted to the U.S.


Could you imagine the hypocracy of these very same people, if the pledge was "Under ALLAH". Man, I would love to hear the coffee machine b****ing that morning.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with that because if you believe in him u can call him what ever you want just don't leave him out of your life are you will be lost.

 

If the pledge was 'Under Allah' you might be in Iran or Saudi Arabia and you might just be keeping quiet and minding your own business...

I think the importance of how God's name is used to a Christian and whether it is in the pledge of allegiance are separate issues.

 

Hee hee, that Judge Lawrence Karlton is a card. I'll bet he is laughing his ass off. Or maybe he's just a John Mellancamp fan.

"I fight authority, authority's always winning"

It serves a purpose to keep philospical questions in the forefront. It makes people think and consider other points of view. It's really the only way to oppose popular mythology and demogogary.

 

I will tell you straight up. I believe in One Nation Under God. Period, No and's, if's, or but's from me. I have no rebuttal to any of your responses on some think it should be taken out. I dont think God sits on his throne caring about whether or not, his name is said in the pledge or the bible being in front of courts or if his name is on money or not. I think he cares more about where each of our hearts are. If the reason why you want to take his name out is because you want to seperate church and state. Or are you using Church and State as a valid reason to pursue your agenda (when I say your I am not refering to anyone specifically). Honestly I feel anything that puts God's name in the fore front is good. Like I said before just my opinion. If you want to take your money and scratch God out and put Allah on it, so be it. Thats on you. If you want to say one nation under Allah.... Thats on you. I can care less. However I will never be for changing any of it, because I think it is for the greater good. Now the way Bush uses God in politic's pisses me off. Seems to use it when he knows it will rally "a" (not his) voting base. However after the votes are counted his actions dont reflect that of the Bible. What he does is wrong in my opinion... But again, its just my opinion. You dont have to agree with it...

 

I applaud your post edwardc, but I think you would find most if not next to all Christians would NOT follow you in this thinking.

As for u851662, you still didnt answer the question. You said "if you want to" or "thats on you". Would you be ok, with the pledge saying under allah?

Or even better, if the US was a budduhist nation would it be ok to make you say in school "one nation under Buddah"? Point is, that it is YOUR religion, you can try to convert as many as you want, but it doesnt belong in our schools, or our gov't.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

You would be offended or surprised if a buddist nation made kids recite a pledge of national allegiance to 'one nation under Buddah' ?

If the US was a buddist nation and that happened I would not be surprised nor offended. Think about it, what would be so weird there?

Nor I am I surprised that people continue to think of America as a Christian nation and neither am I surprised that we are removing 'under God' from the Pledge.

I am not surprised that it was put there in the time it was inserted and I am not surprised it is being challenged in the time we live in.

I am not surprised that once upon a time the Supreme Court had the Ten Commandments carved into their chambers nor that today the City of Houston removed a Bible from a public display.

You don't need to argue 'what would we Christians do if this was a Buddist or a Muslim nation', you are intelligent enough to understand how some Christians may respond to the changes that are taking place today.

I don't think changing the pledge of allegiance tells God something He doesn't already know, nor do I think He is surprised to find it offends people.

Whoever put it in there probably had good intentions, and those who want it out probably have good intentions (to each his own)

If you don't believe in God then this seems only reasonable and rational. If you believe that God's name is to be respected and has value in itself, then you might have some thoughts on the actions taken.

God's name is not on trial here, we are.

 

I am Christian, and it does not seem rational to me to make everyone else pledge to my God if they dont believe in him.

 

If one wants to say Allah while reciting the pledge that is fine with me. The leader of the pledge should say it how it is but the individuals who are reciting it can say Allah if they like, its up to them. I mean if you dont want to say it at all then i really dont care.

your second question is better though: If the US was a budduhist nation then if they recited "one nation under buddah" then thats what they say, but it would work the opposite then for me, while they are saying buddah I would be saying under God. In that being said, I am not trying to convert anyone, but "Under God" is what we say. Is what we been saying all my lifetime. If you dont want to say it then dont. But the rest of the nation shouldnt have to change just because a Budduhist or whatever respective religion one is doesnt want to.

 

Keyword, you shouldnt have to say it if you dont want to. But the pledge should not be changed.

 

Dreamshake, I am only guessing but back when that was added it was probably intended to make a statement that America was connected with God in a good way. The allegiance is being pledged to America, not God.

The problem is that 'under God' is connecting America to God.

I understand that people don't like that. But please don't assume that the intention originally was to 'make people pledge to the Christian God' as if this was some sort of way of mass converting America.

Please be thoughtful, nobody who says the pledge of allegiance is making any pledge to God, in fact most people have just said it without much meaning at all.

This issue of the Pledge is not BIG, just noteworthy. I have not once said the pledge of allegiance in our church, I'm not sure why I would do that?

Since your a Christian, I am sure this will not rock your faith, but please understand why some Christians might be reacting.

And as far as God's name goes, read the Bible and get some input on that issue directly from scriptures. I just say that because I think the Bible is a good place for Christians to go to form opinions.

 

Yes and
In our country... Most people are white or European descent.
White of European descent isn't an official ethnicity but..

Sishir Sliver

 

I believe membership must exceed 1000 people to be considered a religion.

 

First thing before I say anything else.

Its "Buddha" not "Buddah" or "Buduh" and its "Buddhists" not "Buddahist" or Buduhists". Many of you Christians would be up in arms if someone kept on repeatedly misspelling "Jesus".

I'm not surprised that its an issue about whether the pledge said "Allah" in the place of "God" but if the pledge was translated into Arabic, and I'm guessing it has since we don't have an official language, it would be "Allah." That's not necessarily making it Islamic unless the presumption is by changing the language that would change which deity you refer to. For instance I suspece the Spanish version is "Dios" and I'm guessing noone is upset about that.

But that's missing the fact that under the First Ammendment we aren't a nation of any religion, at least as far as the government is concerned. That's why I raised the question about whether this specifically applies to Christianity because IMO while we aren't officially any religion doesn't mean that the government is totally devoid of recognition of the idea of a higher power "god" in its most generic form.

The statement to me then is merely a statement regarding the country's metaphysical existence and not one that's a pledge to any specific deity. It could just as well be phrased to "One nation under the Sun."

 

It's spelled Jebus.