Judge Rules Reciting Pledge in Public School is Unconstitutional

[sarcasm]
Good thing Atheist never try to imposed their beleifs on others
[/sarcasm]

Make that :

Good thing Atheist never try to imposed their lack of beleifs on others.

 

Make that:

CHELLSPECK!!!

I before E, except after C.....remember that one?

 

To be fair, it was a private citizen suing on behalf of two families who invested the resources, not any government officials or agencies.

But if we could agree to remove the phrase that was inserted in the 1950s, there would not be any more challenges at all to the Pledge.

 

No kidding.

 

There's a reason why the 9th circuit court of appeals is overwhelmingly the most overturned court in the nation.

 

The constitutional amendment specifically says that the government cannot respect an establishment of religion. THAT'S IT.

It has nothing to do with whether or not that established religion is imposed on people. So if the govt decided to establish an official govt "Church of the United States" but did nothing to impose it (like in England) it would still be blatanly unconstitutional.

So the only thing that matters is whether having an officially govt-led and somewhat coerced leading of the Pledge of Allegiance with the phrase "One Nation, Under God" is respecting an establishment of religion.

IMO, I believe it clearly is an establishment of religion. Having it be officially led by the school means that clearly it is respecting the religion of the belief in the monotheistic Judeo-Christian God and disrespectiing other beliefs either in many Gods, no Gods, etc. It is saying that it is the official belief of the govt-run school that the Nation is under "God" and coercing people to affirm this belief.

 

Actually I missed in tim562's post:

So this case appears to be having to do with the individuals right to their own belief regarding God and not a general ruling that there can be no official recognition of God or a higher power.

You're arguing the second point and I think its a good argument but its not one I fully agree with even though I am generally very leery of religion and government. My own view is that while the government is forbidden from specifically endorsing a particular religion is that there is nothing preventing a recognition of a generic higher power. Further just by stating "under God" doesn't necessarily imply loyalty or obligation to a religious faith just a mere statement that there is a higher power. While this goes against an atheists individual right to not believe in God I don't see anything unconstitutional about a generic statement regarding the existence of a generic divinity. From looking at the Declaration of Indpendence I think its clear that while the US might not be founded as a Christian nation its not founded as an Atheistic nation either. I'll head off the obvious that yes the Declariation of Independence isn't the Constitution but as a direct precursor I don't think it can be totally dismissed either.

The remedy that I see for the problem is to change the line from "One nation under God" to "One nation under god" so its not a specific acknowledgement of a deity but generic.

 

Just take "God," or "god" out of the pledge altogether. It was put in as a sop to supporters of Joe McCarthy, during the bogus "red scare." We got along fine before that was in the pledge, and we'll get along even better, in my opinion, when it's kicked to the curb.



Keep D&D Civil!!

 

A truly godless period in American history, one would suspect.

What is LOL funny is that the thing those right wingnuts say they want is not what they really want. Prayer in school? God in The Pledge? If you put a whole mix of Christians in a locked room and told them to come with a prayer/pledge, someone would have to die. Think about it. The early *refugees* from Europe came here looking for, get this, religious freedom. Where exactly did they come from? Could it be classified as a Christian nation? Christians not being able to live in a Christian nation.

These same bozos are in denial about their immigrant heritage. Immigration reform? English only? Yeah, that's what made this nation great. Bring it on, morons.

 

I didn't realize that Newdow and the 9th circuit court were forcing people to not believe in God! I guess you know something that the article author doesn't!

 

I may have misunderstood you, but how is this atheists imposing beliefs? I think that the act of omission is not imposing but rather the act of including, for example if they fight to have some sort of atheistic creed included in the pledge of allegiance. Noone is stopping Christians from doing a silent prayer on their own but other kids shouldn't have to do partake in that. I seem to recall during my grade school years a student would be reprimanded if they didn't fully cooperate in the recitation (which was done only out of laziness, not any agnostic or atheistic awareness lol, most everyone was "Christian" as a child) of the pledge.

Not sure I understood you though.

 

Quick question:

Should we deem every Federal document that mentions God unconstitutional?

After all, that would be the only way to truly separate "Church and State".

Just curious.

 

This kind of ties in with the "childhood truths" thread from the Hangout if any of you have read that, but I'll put this in here since we're on the topic of Christianity in public schools.

I went to a primarily white, affluent public school, so I don't know if it was just an effect of that environment or if any of you experienced this. All throughout elementary school basically all of my peers were Christian and they openly declared this. It just seems that at that age, in that environment I was in, we were taught to think that anyone who wasn't Christian was evil. I remember there was one boy in my class in 5th grade who was openly atheist and he was instantly a pariah figure. Boy did they ridicule him. The other kids couldn't believe that someone didn't believe in God. I personally am not a Christian but I grew up thinking that most people were. It wasn't until college when I realized the majority of people were agnostic. (That sentiment changed following election day 2004 but I digress...)

Did anyone else experience this? I guess what I'm saying is that at that young age it is kind of a peer pressure to participate in the pledge. It may seem harmless, but those atheist parents have a right to have their children not be brainwashed as well. How would a Christian feel if their child was placed in an environment in which he would be asked to praise Allah every day. Seems harmless, but others should be respected. That's why I hope they do away with the pledge in public schools.

 

This whole debate about the pledge is so stupid. Of all the things in our country that need addressing, why are people wasting time on this?

I'm so sick and tired of hearing it. No one is forced to say "under god" just don't freakin verbalize it.

 

but they are wasting class time to stand up, put your hand on your heart and aimlessly say a pledge.

seriously tho, saying the pledge every day was the stupidest thing they made us do in school.

oh and in texas, we get to say TWO pledges.

 

I am a religious person who firmly believes in a higher power, but I do agree that the best thing for everyone is to do away with the pledge alltogether, not just the 'under God' part. In other words, it shouldn't be required of students to stand up and recite a pledge of allegiance. I know it's patriotic times and all, but I think that would be the best way to resolve this whole very silly issue. I hope they settle it once and for all and just move on to concentrate on more important things. It doesn't affect me in any meaningful way ( + or - ).

I think this is more of a sentimental issue for both sides involved.

 

God is on the Money ,. . . .
is the Money unconstitutional?

Maybe all the atheist should give their money to me

Rocket River
Just trying to help

 

Methinks atheists worship money itself as a false idol, not really the writing on it. Thus, atheists are big enough to look past the "In God We Trust" and just get on with the godless pursuits said money can buy.

 

Just replace the word "G-d" with the words "The Holy Dollar" and the pledge will be 10X more accurate as well as truthful and the debate over this nonsense will end.

Yes it's been a bad morning so far, and it isn't even 8AM.....

 

How about something like this:

Stupid's Pledge by Utah Phillips

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the multinational corporations
and to the profit for which they stand;
one interlocking directorate under no government:
indivisible, with monopoly and cheap labor for all!