I do care about good and evil. I just think it is more evil to force a woman to go to an untrained individual to receive a medical procedure in an unlicensed facility than it is to give that woman quality health care. Since you implied it, it is my duty to inform you that I AM NOT A LIBERAL! The abomination would be taking the choice away from mothers. As I have repeatedly stated, we CAN reduce abortion levels dramatically, we just have to do it with education about and distribution of contraception. I would rather have a system that works rather than a policy that is in name only. If we prohibit abortion, it will be in name only because abortions will continue to be performed by the criminal underground. We have already ceded control of the vast profits in the drug industry to criminal organizations, do we need to cede control of medical procedures, too?
Yes it gets even more simpler when the child of the 19 year old who had a parent unpreprared to care for the full needs of an infant, goes through grade school with no government help in the form of after school programs to help him deal with his life because conservatives cut programs until they figured out how to make them run more effectively (yeah right), and so by junior high he's still one of the kids with no supervision or structure (mom is workin full time and going to night school) who starts committing small crimes like smoking pot maybe boosting car stereos, and by the time high school rolls around this child who still doesn't know who his father is, is living in a crap neighborhood even though mom is working her ass off and then graduates to felon status with his first stolen car. Right about that time he runs into some conservative judge who's "tough on crime" and throws his punk ass in prison with the hard core murderers and rapists. Then we get some other concerned conservative like Limbaugh to trash people like him for not being personally accountable for their lives. It's pretty simple.
We now have a new justification for abortion: kill the baby so it doesn't grow up to be a criminal. wow.
andy first off I want to say I'm sorry I'm being so harsh, its just that this issue is so near and dear to my heart and I'm sorry we've had a two day battle over this... The problem is that I hate the attitude of it happens we should just deal with it... If we looked to weed out the illegal doctors, we could eradicate it all together... I'll just shut up about this though and pray for you guys because we can just but heads all day...
] That's the reality to your pollyanna just give life a chance. You'll save a fetus one day, decry him for growing into a lost young man with no morals, and then put him to death. That's conservative politics for you.
Let me see here: A. You believe that a justification for abortion would be to keep people from being born poor so they won't become criminals! That is dreadful and shows you have no respect at all for human life. B. You blame society for this hypothetical child turning out the way he did when in fact the sins of his parents, having sex without protection or worse yet having the financial means to properly support a child, are visited upon him unfortunately. We are all born into different circumstances and he ultimately had the CHOICE to do all those criminal things he did. When we give people a pass, oh, you were born poor, so whatever you do criminally is not your fault, we send a powerful message that there always an excuse for wrongdoing. C. The lesson is: children need to understand the consequences of irresponsible sex. They need to understand that it would be preferable for them not to engage in it lightly, but if they do, use some sort of contraceptive. It's all about making people accountable for their actions. I like the quote from the movie "Boys in the Hood."
No, we (Americans) have had an ongoing 60 or 70 year battle with this because people like you can't just focus on the things you could do that WOULD reduce abortion dramatically. If y'all (pro- lifers) put the same energy into educating people and distributing contraceptives, abortion would be dramatically reduced. And I hate it when government bans something that cannot be banned, like drug use or abortion. Why can't it be banned, you might ask? Because as long as there is demand for something (abortion, drugs, prostitution, gambling), someone will step up to provide it. You have tried to draw parallels to murder and rape, but those are things that do not follow economic law. As long as there is demand, there will be supply, that is the unchanging law of economics. If that was true, they would have been able to do it in the 50s. There is no way to enforce a prohibition on abortion any more than it is possible to enforce drug prohibition. I will pray that you see the light as well.
Of course I have no respect for human life. I'm delighted that you could make your apperance in this thread to share your latest humorous mischaracterizations and over the top statements. I would have put you on ignore by now but I need someone from your ilk visible to me to remind me why others are on ignore. Thanks very much for all you do!
Well there are alot of interesting points flying around this thread-- I don't think any of them have much to do with the three judges who have blocked the unconstitutional ban on PB abortions though. Can I get some input/ differing opinions on these questions? 1. Should Congress and Bush have waited and produced more of a compromise in the wording of the bill instead of calling for an across the board ban on the procedure? 2. Will we see more judges stepping forward to block punishment for doctors who use the PB abortion or are we just seeing three very liberal judges trying to make a statement? 3. Will this ban survive if judges from several more states block the ban? What will be the next step if the ban is blocked in 20 or 30 (or more) states? 4. Should this ban be left as is without any adjustments -- and why? 5. Was the partial birth abortion ban created strictly for the benefit of unborn children or are there political motivations as well? (Primarily an end to all abortions.)
No, we (Americans) have had an ongoing 60 or 70 year battle with this because people like you can't just focus on the things you could do that WOULD reduce abortion dramatically. If y'all (pro- lifers) put the same energy into educating people and distributing contraceptives, abortion would be dramatically reduced. we don't want a mediocre compromise, sorry And I hate it when government bans something that cannot be banned, like drug use or abortion. Why can't it be banned, you might ask? Because as long as there is demand for something (abortion, drugs, prostitution, gambling), someone will step up to provide it. You have tried to draw parallels to murder and rape, but those are things that do not follow economic law. As long as there is demand, there will be supply, that is the unchanging law of economics. everything is an equation for you, didn't you learn anything from the oracle... CS LEwis has a good commentary on this when he says Jail should not be used as a scare tactic for criminals because then the criminals don't commit crimes because they don't want to go to jail, not because they think that it is wrong to commit crimes... If that was true, they would have been able to do it in the 50s. There is no way to enforce a prohibition on abortion any more than it is possible to enforce drug prohibition. I will pray that you see the light as well. i hope irony will be fun and good for you
I'm sure that will be a big help to them in their lives. We know how much prayer is a good substitute for government policy. Heck we should just close down health and human services altogether, just get everyone praying for people.
1. Yes, absolutely. They could have actually stopped this horrible practice if they had compromised by inserting language that would never have been invoked anyway. We all know compromise isn't in the GOP vocabulary, though (not to say that Democrats are much better, but the GOP is particularly inflexible as of late). 2. This was a federal judge, so his ruling affects the ban as a whole, I think. 3. Again, I don't think it was a state judge, it was a federal judge. 4. No, it should have language protecting the health of the mother. 5. IMO, it was a first step to banning all abortions, but (also IMO) it is a ban that I think needs to be in place. If you are going to have an abortion, you should make that choice as early as possible.
yep...that's the reality, Timing. every child we bring in this world whose mom considered abortion ultimately ends up a criminal. and i personally head up the charge in prosecuting those people. though you don't know a thing about me, personally...you're always so dead-on about me. that's awesome...i think you only have a few more posts before you earn the Dionne Warwick Psychic Friends' merit badge. label me whatever you want, Timing. pollyanna...whatever. categorize me and disrespect me all you want. but don't disrespect human life like that. people don't fit into broad categories...and even life spent with struggle is still death...go to any hospital in the country and you can get a good glimpse of that. if it's life, it's life.
what the hell are you doing for them, Timing?? you always lament the woes of the world...so what do you do about them? besides point the finger at other people, of course.
