So since Crack cocaine, beastality, murder, and rape are things that are going to keep happening, should we go ahead and legalize those as well. **** this is a free country, if I want to rape something I'll rape it...
What you continue to refuse to see is that no matter the laws, no matter the enforcement, no matter the sanctions, people will get abortions. You can shut down a hundred, a thousand, or a hundred thousand back alley abortionists and the only thing that will happen is that more will spring out of the woodwork. We had that situation in America before Roe v. Wade and were never able to shut it down. What has changed that will allow us to catch them when we have leveled our massive enforcement machine at drugs and have not even slightly reduced usage levels?
I can make a very strong case for regulating cocaine (even crack), but those other things are not victimless crimes. I know that you are going to come back and claim that abortion has a victim, but until the fetus can live outside the mother, it is not it's own life to me.
Again, rapists have a victim, but I could make a very strong case for regulating prostitution, too. (it works well in Nevada)
Well then you are dumb, to become a human, one has to be a fetus, I've never in the history of earth found a human who wasn't a fetus at some point in time. Just one more of your attempts to devalue our existence. Go get lost in a crack pipe.
Perhaps it's the degree of hypocrisy. Liberal philosophy on civil liberties having to choose whose freedom or right is most essential, the mother's of the fetuses's, while conservatives doing an entire 180 counter to their philosophy of less government to involve themselves in the lives of women and their pregancies while not supporting the women who choose to have the children despite the poverty of their situation. The degree of hypocrisy of behalf of conservatives is on another level of what exists on behalf of liberals on this issue IMHO.
The numerous amount of people I've talked too who've spoken on the very poor hygenic conditions of abortion clinics, and how they would reuse needles and syringes... Thats not evidence I guess...victimless crime...you can be a victim to yourself sometimes you know that andy?
And the various people I know who have had abortions (8 or 9 I think) have told me just the opposite. Planned Parenthood is extremely clean, well run, and sanitary. If the "evidence" you want me to use is simply heresay then I have as much or more than you have. (notice: heresay is not evidence at all, so you have still not provided actual evidence)
My problem is with ignorant liberals who generalize conservatives as hating welfare, when they just want to restructure the program to make it work better...who play the poverty and welfare card with out giving a justifiable reason why life cannot be well lived as a poor or struggling person...and who continue to deny the child's right to life (what was that part of the declaration of independence)
Don't bother, your "evidence" of unsanitary conditions does not hold a candle to the conditions we would have if abortion were prohibited. You are tilting at the wrong windmill, dude.
Where exactly did Jefferson write about the fetus' right to life? I will accept any writing, even outside the Declaration.
What kind of BS is that?? I went to Planned Parenthood with girlfriends back in the late '60's and early 70's (as a courtesy... I'm such a nice guy) and nothing could be further from the truth. Why do you throw this junk out there? There are plenty of reasons to have an intelligent argument about abortion, but this isn't one. And why did you turn this thread into another tirade? Wasn't the other one to your liking? (sorry folks, but some of this gets irritating)
Yeah I know I just get fired up when it comes to the abortion debate, and andy just gets on my nerves to no end because he absolutely does not care about what is good and what is evil... The rest of you liberals, I totally understand you're concern for the mothers, and your want for a baby to be brought up in a safe environment, its just that I disagree deeply about what this country allows people to do the unborn. Andy, can you give me one example of one person who lived without being a fetus? Is that good enough for you? Its part of the human cycle of life... good luck finding a Jefferson quote, this abomination wasn't widespread or even well known at his time...probably never had to think about it much...
You just said your problem is of a generalization of what conservatives hate and then you generalized what conservatives really wanted to do. I think you have bigger problems than you think. This whole playing the poverty and welfare card without giving a justifiable reason why life cannot be well lived as a poor or struggling person is probably the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. I just can't FATHOM why a single mother with a newborn whose father has run off, who doesn't have an education because she's freakin 19 years old, who works for $6 an hour at some fast food place to pay for rent on her slum area apartment can't live well. I just can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to bring a child into that situation. I'll have to think about that one for a while. Hmmm...
