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JuanValdez, What Happened To The Grid?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by pgabriel, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    @JuanValdez knows a lot about the electricity market and its rules and regulations.

    Why is it so hard to ramp up electricity generation?

    How did they get caught off guard? This weather isn't a surprise
     
  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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  3. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Let’s here more from the Texas should secede crowd. Unlike every other state, Texas wanted their own independent grid system that couldn’t even handle temps in the single digits and mostly snow. Abbot has already called Biden to ask for a National declaration in order to get federal aid too of course.

    Now let’s ask the question of what Trump or a Trumpy Republican would do if the shoe was on the other foot. Abbott literally has been peddling lies that Biden is releasing sexual predators into the Texas streets and then begs for his help when his buddies/donors failed epically to produce a functioning grid.
     
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  5. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Why chooses to be on an island?

    When you got friends around you, connect a few pipes or wires to other electricity and gas distributors so you can call for help when demand is higher than supply.

    So I read, one nuclear power plant went down. Many of the wind turbines froze and also went down. Gas demand was so high, a number of gas power plants went down. Gas seems to be the biggest issue. And on top of that, it’s apparent that tx system isn’t designed for organized rolling brown out or that the ppl running it hasn’t a clue how to.

    @JuanValdez is busy reading rolling brownout for dummies, so he might be a bit busy now ;)
     
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  6. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I don't know why Texas had its own power grid. I wouldn't assume anything about it. I worked for a power provider. I'm pretty sure grids aren't separated and I would have assumed if it was a simple issue of supply buying from producers on another grid is not an issue.
     
  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Yes, the grids are separate. And yes, buying from another grid is very difficult. To put it in perspective, power grids are as fragile as the economy.
     
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  8. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    A bit of history abut the Texas power grid....

    https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/why-does-texas-have-its-own-power-grid/
     
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  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I don't remember if power producers bought and sold across grids. Its been over 10 years since I worked in the industry
     
  10. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    What essentially determines a grid is all its generators resonating at the same frequency in synchronization. Texas and parts of Mexico are in synchronization, although not considering in the same 'grid'. West Coast grid synchronizes in a counter clockwise around the Rocky Mountains. East coast uses more of a cellular style. Quebec and Alaska have their own too. Grids can be connected but via, ... im not sure what they are technically called, but similar to a transformer. Power can be transferred, but nothing remotely sustainable. This is one of the reasons why Texas is so fked right now. Texas chose to play stupid games and now they reaped a stupid reward.
     
  11. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    So it seems like there is some linkage. Why didn’t they use it, was that also not enough, or they refuses to tap that source because they fear fed regulation?

    edit: I see the link below was already posted by bobrek

    https://www.rawstory.com/texas-power-outage/

    Here's why Texas has its own power grid
     
    #11 Amiga, Feb 16, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  12. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Texas refused to join one of the national grids when FDR implemented the original regulations on power generation. Federal authority to regulate power generation is based on the interstate movement of electricity. By opting out of joining the national grids, Texas basically avoided any federal regulations of power plants (although EPA pollution regulations still apply because pollution crosses state lines even if Texas's electricity doesn't).

    This was purely a way to dodge federal regulations. Consequently, Texas was decades behind federal safety and reliability regulations of power plants. ERCOT itself has largely limped along with minimal support from the state so Texas's grid reliability has continued to decline over time.

    And to be clear, Texas does have some connections with the US and Mexican grids but those connections are minimal and since Texas doesn't participate in the regular sale and movement of electricity within the US grid, they are stuck buying power at spot prices so it becomes really expensive to buy power from other states in situations like this. Also Texas would have to make big changes to its grid to fully integrate with the surrounding grids.

    This was predictable. El Paso had a castastrophic freeze in 2011 that took out its plants (as well as several in New Mexico). El Paso has since weather proofed its power generation (so they had minimal impact from the weather). Also, El Paso was able to bring in power from other states since they are not part of ERCOT (El Paso is part of the western grid). Part of the panhandle and parts of East Texas are also not part of ERCOT.
     
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  13. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Its extremely expensive to buy on the spot market and Texas's integrations with the Eastern grids are quite minimal. They wouldn't be able to import enough electricity to make up the deficit.

    Also if Texas invested in building out the ability to import power at large amounts from other grids, I'm pretty sure the Feds would pre-empt ERCOT and bring Texas under federal regulation.
     
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  14. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    History repeat

    https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2021/02/15/dallas-winter-storm-freeze.html

    Equipment failure turned out to be a big part of the problem.

    "Beginning around 11:00 p.m. [Sunday night], multiple generating units began tripping off-line in rapid progression due to the severe cold weather," said Dan Woodfin, senior director of system operations at ERCOT, the organization that manages the state’s electric grid.

    What does that mean? Equipment literally froze in the single digit temperatures and stopped working.

    Then, as reserves diminished, ERCOT asked transmission providers to turn off large industrial users that had previously agreed to be shut down. But the situation deteriorated quickly, requiring rotating outages that have lasted hours for many Texans.

    Electric generating plants did not properly winterize their equipment, said Dr. David Tuttle in the latest episode of the Y’all-itics political podcast. Tuttle is a research associate with the Energy Institute at the University of Texas at Austin.

    "There are things that can be done, but it will cost some money," he added. "About every decade we have these long-sustained periods. And then, you know weatherization is supposed to happen, and then, it doesn't because it costs money."

    ERCOT said almost 34,000 megawatts of electricity has been forced off the system. On average, a single megawatt can power about 500 homes.

    This isn’t the first time that weatherization has been an issue with equipment failure and rotating outages in Texas.

    In August 2011, six months after an ice storm crippled much of the state and resulted in rotating outages, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and the North American Electric Reliability Corporation issued a report with recommendations.

    "Generators and natural gas producers suffered severe losses of capacity despite having received accurate forecasts of the storm," the report states. "Entities in both categories report having winterization procedures in place. However, the poor performance of many of these generating units and wells suggests that these procedures were either inadequate or were not adequately followed."

    That investigation revealed what happened in 2011, also happened in 1989, which is the first time ERCOT ever implemented rotating outages.

    "The experiences of 1989 are instructive, particularly on the electric side. In that year, as in 2011, cold weather caused many generators to trip, derate, or fail to start. The [Public Utility Commission of Texas] investigated the occurrence and issued a number of recommendations aimed at improving winterization on the part of the generators.

    These recommendations were not mandatory, and over the course of time implementation lapsed. Many of the generators that experienced outages in 1989 failed again in 2011," the investigation discovered.


    Fast forward a decade and here we are again.

    Winterizing equipment – making sure it can sustain extended periods of below-freezing temperatures – has never been a requirement in Texas like other states.

    "All of us would love to say, we want super reliable [electricity]," Tuttle said. "It would be millions to really bulletproof the system for that. How much do we want to pay to go protect ourselves with insurance policies for rare events?"

    It’s a fair point. Rotating outages are rare in Texas, only happening about every decade or so.

    But in dangerous cold, like much of what has enveloped the state this week, lives could be put at risk since many people are trapped at home, unable to leave because of treacherous travel conditions. Not to mention, some older individuals live in poorly insulated homes.

    But Texas lawmakers are asking questions, again.

    With the legislature currently in session, it’s likely that this situation will get the attention of state leaders.

    "The Texas power grid has not been compromised," wrote Gov. Greg Abbott, R-Texas, on Twitter Monday afternoon. "The ability of some companies that generate the power has been frozen. This includes the natural gas & coal generators. They are working to get generation back online."

    As it manages the emergency, ERCOT defended its winter plan.

    "This event was well beyond the design-parameters for a typical or even extreme Texas winter that you would plan for," said Woodfin, with ERCOT. "They began as rotating outages but they’re [now] controlled outages and they are lasting longer than what would normally happen because of the magnitude."

    But history says Texas should have known better. But what’s the price we’re willing to pay?
     
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  15. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Don't do any ERCOT stuff, but power LMPs get repriced multiple times a day, that versus generation and fuel costs determines operability for individual units, and that decision can made at the utility level or all the way up to the regulating grid with max generation or conservative operation orders. Upstream on the fuel side, prices are going bonkers, and pipelines are alternating between drastically curtailing flow, or just adding insane penalties to any actual deliveries drastically above or below traded or scheduled volumes. There is also some separate nuttiness with wellheads not being able to pump natural gas without sufficient power. $2.00 / MMBtu all fall to $2.50 - $3.00 first part of year to $100.00 - $250.00 since last Friday.
     
  16. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    what do you his think about this? Is this more of a reason for this new or is it just more bad prep for this storm and independent grid?
     
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  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    I thought only commy California dealt with this BS.

     
  18. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    I find that is hard to believe. If true, outrageous and criminally liable for injuries.
     
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  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Socialize the losses. Privatize the gains.

    Repugs idea of "working hard" is to scream and cry the loudest.

    President Biden approves Texas emergency declaration amid winter storm
    President Joe Biden approved an emergency declaration for the state of Texas and ordered federal assistance to supplement state and local response efforts due to the emergency conditions resulting from a severe winter storm.

    The president's action authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures. The declaration covers all 254 Texas counties.

    Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Emergency protective measures for mass care and sheltering and direct federal assistance will be provided at 75 percent federal funding.

    On Friday Governor Greg Abbott declared a disaster for all of Texas ahead of the storm. He is asking all Texans to conserve energy in an effort to alleviate possible power outages during the expected winter storm.​
     
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