Yes. Altuve had already established himself in previous postseasons which helped lead his teammates to better playoff success and more playoff experience. The Killer B's owe Beltran their playoffs lives for having the cojones to inspire them. Otherwise they'd be the absolute worst playoff HOFers in history instead of merely bad.
For me it’s still Biggio, but if Altuve re-ups with the Astros after his current contract and stays reasonably healthy I think it will be Altuve by the time he retires. Another WS where Altuve has some key moments could also put him ahead even sooner. Altuve has the post-season track record Biggio does not and the narrative of going from 100 loss seasons to 100 win seasons. There’s also no comparable “Bagwell” that has shared that journey with him. Even with Yordan, Tucker, Springer, Correa, etc, Altuve has always been the guy that sets the tone. If you want to know how the Astros are doing, you can generally just look at how Altuve has been doing. Maybe I’ve convinced myself Altuve is already there.
Does Ken Griffey Jr have one of those? Individual greatness is much much more than team accomplishments
So it's all about individual greatness and not the team? Altuve is a leader and a spark plug for the team... He steps up too challenge and leads by example especially in the playoffs.. I get it you like the killer bees and during the regular season they were awesome... But every year during the playoffs they would not show up... A lot of players are like that in every sport... for the rockets... Harden was great during the reg season and just disappear during the playoffs... Then there's the opposite... Horry was so so during the reg season and would take it to a other level during the playoffs... Reggie Jackson was the same in baseball.. hint the name Mr. October. Altuve is that rare player like Olajuwon that shows up for the reg season and playoffs and leads by example... His play and attitude lifts the team up.. I have no thing against the killer bees, but Altuve is better.. In My Opinion... T_Man
I’m a huge Bagwell & Biggio fan. I think they should have won multiple championships. But they meddled too much as GM’s and it cost them their titles. Perhaps it’s because the Astros of then had weak front offices that got over ruled by McClane who was as much a fanboy of Bagwell as he was the owner of the team. Biggio and Bagwell were always so salty, they were very professional, but obviously it was their way or the highway for fellow teammates. if the Bagwell, Biggio, Lofton, Caminiti, Gonzalez, Finley, Servais team had stayed in tact, it would have blossomed into a dynastic era. But those Astros blew it… Altuve is the greatest Astro because he is humble and he is elite. He continues to play the game with the joy of a kid, and his attitude is infectious to his teammates. Even though Altuve plays at an all-star and MVP level, he exhibits internal confidence that other could say is ice in his veins; where he thrives being in the grandest of stages of MLB.
This is exactly it. Altuve has some years to go to objectively surpass Biggio’s counting stats, and perhaps never had and never will have the dominance of Bagwell in his prime. BUT, Altuve is everything you want in a face of the franchise. Humble, energetic (not the “fun is not allowed” clubhouse atmosphere B & B endorsed), ethically unimpeachable, amazingly engaged with fans, and willing to take all of the undeserved abuse with grace. He should be the Steph Curry of baseball - beloved by every writer as the “underdog who made good.” But because he is not American, he plays in Houston, he was an Astro in 2017, and Jomboy exists, he is reviled. Does he complain? No - he just consistently performs … with a smile. And that is the real reason he is the greatest. It isn’t the playoffs … it is the countless times (including yesterday) he has turned around the Astros’ fortunes in the face of adversity. He is an exceptional player, an exceptional teammate, and an exceptional human being. If you have a better “all time” player, you are exceptionally lucky. Bagwell isn’t it. Biggio isn’t it. We didn’t have Jackie or Lou or Ted. Altuve is the greatest Astro ever … and it isn’t close.
Regardless of where you stand on this topic, it’s good that the Astros are building something like this that can be debated. All the great organizations have a stable of who’s the greatest of all time. I’ve always thought Bagwell was the best Astro of all time. To me it’s now Altuve. There is still work to be done but his body of work is ridiculous. and there should be much more to come.
Well said, brother. I'm not here to get into in depth conversations about fWAR or advanced stats or any of that stuff. I'm not here to try and reduce the amazing careers Bagwell and Biggio each had. I loved watching them play as well. But for all the reasons you listed up above, THOSE are why Altuve is my favorite Astro. As annoying as it was to witness the national reaction when the cheating scandal broke, more than anything it crystalized how awesome a human being Altuve is. He not only didn't partake in that cheating when he had every chance, he just took all that national writer abuse (which translated to opposing fan vitriol) without any real complaint. In part because he's just a mature dude who isn't the type to clap back, but also because the only real way to exonerate himself was to point the finger at his teammates, and he wasn't going to do that. So he suffered in silence. It takes an incredibly strong person to do that. And on top of all that, he's an amazing baseball player with some incredible moments in the playoffs that I'll never forget. I hope he remains an Astro for life.
I love Altuve and glad his career is still going strong, but his horrific defense is going to keep his WAR down from likely ever passing Bagwell. WAR isn't everything of course, but being the franchise leader in WAR would be a big deal. Seeing Grae turn that double play in the 8th that I know Altuve probably doesn't make just reminded me of what great defense looks like at 2B. And it sucks because Altuve has been a solid 2B throughout most of his career (not that he ever deserved to win his GG), it just has fallen off a cliff recently.
Bagwell was an amazing baseball player. He literally was a 5 tool player. Not because of his natural tools but because his baseball IQ and work ethic allowed him to use what tools he had much more effectively than he should have been able to. He wasn't fast at all but was an amazing baserunner and the only primary 1B to have a 30-30 season (2 of them) in baseball history. Even before the shoulder issue, his arm was only average, but he charged bunts and slow rollers aggressively and threw to bases fearlessly and accurately to get outs that are frequently simply given up on. He had an exceptional glove at firstbase, It's a crime that he only won gold glove, because he played in an era where it was basically a popularity contest like all star selections. He had the type of bat that every opposing team circled. Fans could see 3 HR or 4 doubles in any given day. He would make a pitcher work and not get himself out. And him in the box was an attraction worth the price of admission and the reason fans came. If he had not played 2/3 of his seasons in the Dome or his shoulder held out for another couple of seasons, he would be talked about beside the all time greats nationally. So Bagwell was basically a fusion of: Tucker's baserunning, Bregman's fielding and batting eye, and Yordan's bat. My favorite Bagwell stat: He is the only player in MLB history with 6 consecutive seasons of 30 doubles, 30 HR, 100 R, 100 RBI, and 100 BB. (and 1994 wasn't 1 of them - he met the other standards but only 65 walks that year) Not Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig. Not Barry Bonds, A-Rod, or Albert Pujols. I love Altuve and am enjoying watching him tremendously but he is a bad baserunner and merely good with the glove. He may end up the best Astro in history, considering popularity, accomplishments, and national spotlight but he isn't yet - and will never be a better player than Bagwell was.
Altuve is single-handedly dragging this team to the post-season this week. I don't know how long he can keep it up but a team full of guys trying to emulate him is exactly what it takes to win championships. I have been around long enough to watch a lot of baseball and I have never seen a better display of leadership by example. On the field or off. The irony of all the coaches, players, and fans looking "up" to the littlest player in the game just makes it all the better.
What Altuve is doing is wonderful and impressive. But there have been some great performances recently and all season long from many players. To say that Altuve is doing it single handedly and giving him credit for their accomplishments is pretty insulting in my opinion.
