Jose Altuve is the best Astro ever

My "trolling" statement stemmed from the fact somebody was arguing against an MVP comment

We all know @bobrek is very technical with his responses. Yet he doubled-down on something he was technically wrong

We already know regular season MVPs weigh more than postseason, but the conversation was "MVPs"

You and I both downplayed no-name MVP Peirce. We're in agreement. He was a flash-in-the-pan somewhat similar to Sandoval in the postseason

I don't ignore anyone, regardless of sass, disagreements, or miscommunications

 

So, technically, Pena is only one MVP award behind Mike Trout?

ETA - Actually, Pena has a ways to go. Since Trout has 2 ASG MVPs, he has 5.

EETTAA - Honest question. What is the 3rd Altuve MVP? He won the ALCS in 2019, but that's it (aside from his real MVP)

 

I don't care where it stems from in your mind: my opinion isn't "trolling".

 

And that's your problem

Your feelings while disputing logic

 

Your position is logic. Everyone else's is trolling.

Got it.

 

Yeah, finally you recognize reality

Gold star incoming

 

Jose is the second best Astro of all time.

The best is Jeff Bagwell. Not only do his numbers back that up, but so does his contributions to the Astros to this day.

We are so lucky to have him.

 

I'll take the leader of 4 world series teams and 2 champions over stats any day.

 

Lol, basically the “most valuable” vs best player argument.

 

I love Altuve.

My vote is still for Bagwell for now.

Altuve has 12 seasons
Bagwell has 15

In 2 more seasons Altuve may overtake him, but not yet.

100R
Altuve 4
Bagwell 9

150 H
Altuve 9
Bagwell 12

30 doubles
Altuve 8
Bagwell 10

20 HR
Altuve 5
Bagwell 12

100 RBI
Altuve 0
Bagwell 8

75 BB
Altuve 0
Bagwell 12

20 SB
Altuve 6
Bagwell 3

350 OBP
Altuve 8
Bagwell 15

500 SLG
Altuve 4
Bagwell 10

850 OPS
Altuve 4
Bagwell 11

5 bWAR
Altuve 5
Bagwell 8.

Astros record
2011-2022 (Altuve) 943-899 .510%
1991-2005 (Bagwell) 1255-1110. .531%

Altuve playoffs in 7 seasons
Bagwell playoffs in 6 seasons.

Altuve has been a monster in the playoffs. And the Astros have had much more playoff success in Altuve's era. Certainly he gets credit for that.

If you take away 2005, where Bagwell was playing with 1 shoulder, he had a .708 OPS in the playoffs. Hardly a star but not as bad as it feels or he gets crushed for " choking"

Altuve does not need 3 more all star level seasons to pass Bagwell, but I think he needs 2. IMO

 

Altuve is by far the best Astro of all time.

 

My vote goes to Altuve. That said, I would prefer it had been Bagwell because he is just more interesting. Still, it's Altuve.

 

More interesting?

Altuve has one of the most fascinating stories ever for someone of his caliber, as far as how he even made it to the big leagues.

 

I think both of their stories are interesting

But I think Bagwell is the more interesting person.

I love listening to him talk baseball during the games he subs.

On a side note, I can't believe he called the attempt to steal home. Crazy baseball IQ

 

Like Mohamed Ali, he's "the greatest"

 

I hope Altuve turns this into the old Brady/Manning argument. There was a time (eons ago it seems) when there was at least a plausible argument for Manning. Then Brady kept going, and kept producing...

 

This

If Altuve passes Bagwell in my book we will all be extremely happy fans. Wouldn't put it past the little b*stard because he's made a career out of defying expectations.

I would have swore his .300/900 seasons were behind him, and then he does both in a year where offense was down league wide.

 

The fact that Bagwell fell off a cliff after 04 gives Altuve a better than average chance of cementing himself (also presuming he will continue to have a chance to have playoff success).

What the Astros are doing now also imprints itself amongst the fan base in a generational-like manner. Whether you agree or not, these Astros teams will end up being far more memorable to the majority of the fan base than the 90's teams were.

It isn't simply the playoff success... its everything now... having MMP vs. the Astrodome (the 90's dome wasn't a destination place to watch a game), the re-brand/uniforms, the infectious/joyous personalities (the 90's Astros treated playing baseball like a job), and having a team that faced all sorts of adversity (whether it was being criticized for the tanking years, or criticized for the scandal) and still find a way to come through.

 

Those late 90s Astros teams just felt so try hard. Bags / Biggio had this old school "play the right way" mindset that seemed very serious and when the playoffs hit, they seemed like they just gripped harder and were not up to the moment when faced with playoff pitching and situations. The Altuve-era Astros have been much more joyous, more free, less frozen by the pressure. That's a credit to Altuve, who's led the way in that regard.

Bagwell put up some of his best seasons in his early years, when the team was mediocre-to-average. The 4 playoffs they made from 97-01 were in his prime, and they won a total of 2 out of 14 playoff games. He was a top-10 MVP guy nearly every year of that run and the Braves (and Padres) just shut him down completely. Zero extra-base hits. In 2 of those 4 series he walked a bunch which makes the OPS look better. By 2004 he was 36 and just a supporting piece for a team led by Clemens, Berkman, Beltran, Oswalt, Kent, etc. And Berkman and Beltran were just awesome playoff performers. They played free and easy and just mashed everything (and Berkman continued to do that in 05). It was really nice to see Bags get some playoff success at the tail end of his career - and he actually contributed for one year - but he wasn't the engine for that team.

The Altuve era has been 1000% more fun than anything that happened during the Bagwell-Biggio era. Amazing regular season success combined with unprecedented playoff dominance, and Altuve has been the centerpiece for all of it. I'll take the guy who is top-2 in playoff history for home runs and top-10 in playoff hits, doubles, runs and RBI, while making 4 WS and winning two titles. It's not close in my mind for greatest Astro. But if you want to give Bagwell the title of "best Astros regular season hitter", I am down.

 

Mostly agreed.

Bagwell's best individual seasons as an Astros will likely never be topped when you just look at how prolific he was.

Granted, we can consider all the other stipulations at the time (MLB juiced the balls starting in 1993, steroids rampant, needed to get excitement/fans back, etc.), but the numbers are the numbers.

At the end of the day, though, its far more memorable/enjoyable to go to an Astros game in 2017-2022 vs. going to an Astros game from 1994-1999. The one exception to that is the 1998 season when Randy Johnson would make a home start at the Astrodome... just a different feel to that place on those nights (but it was less than half the season).

I don't know why the 90's Astros didn't have more fun with it. Just their personalities. I still remember Biggio last year getting upset at Correa for doing the "its my time!" gesture after the HR.... those guys just are who they are.