He has been the best winner in recent years. Russ, Havlicek, and co. had a great run with the Celts, but were playing in what was said to be a less-talented league. Not to mention that they had at least 3-4 of the league's premier players at any given times. He was the best per-game scorer(As stated earlier) He was definitely not the greatest passer ever, but was still good and could easily have become one of the top PG's ever if the situation forced it that way. 1988-89 season(The one in which he played PG, I believe)-32.5 ppg, 8 rpg, 8 apg, 2.9 spg. He wasn't the best rebounder ever, but was one of the best rebounding guards ever. Ended his 2nd comeback with a career average of 6.3 rebounds per game. He contributed to one of the better team defenses in recent year. Probably the 2nd best defensive player on the team. Also, there is no player that fits the best for every aspect of the game, so why look for the him? Jordan is close to the top in pretty much every aspect of basketball, so imho(And many other's), Jordan is the greatest basketball player the NBA has ever seen.
Jordan is close to the top in pretty much every aspect of basketball, so imho(And many other's), Jordan is the greatest basketball player the NBA has ever seen. So were Oscar Robertson, Magic and Hakeem.
Just because I want to... I'm going to add random fuel to the fire... I absolutely agree that Jordan is ARGUABLY the greatest player in the history of the game. But I think you could make just as good of an ARGUMENT for Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Take Larry Bird out of the eighties, and Magic wins 10 championships in a row. Same thing vice versa. Can you imagine what Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain could have done if the other wasn't around in their day? The idea is terrifying... Kareem forced a RULE change because he was so dominating... Not to mention a couple rings... And the "players just weren't as good bad then" argument doesn't work, because you can only compare a player with his contemporaries... Jason Collier would have dominated in the NBA's first year, but in today's NBA, he's fodder. Just because Jordan is the most dominating player in our time doesn't make him the greatest ever. Just arguably so.
P.S. - Some people include Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Julius Erving, and Hakeem Olajuwon in that elite group... But I don't...
DH, Didn't the Lakers pretty much dominate those head to head Finals with the Celtics. If my memory serves me right, they only lost once to the Celtics, so I don't know how 6 championships (5 plus the hypothetical one) would equal 10. Conversely, Bird would not win 10 without Magic either. Jordan though, won 6, and could of one 8 had he not skipped 2 years (I think 7 though). People say Russell only one more, and Wilt was better. Jordan dominated and won. So Dreamer, Who, according to your criteria, is the best player in history? Remeber, you said scoring, rebounding, winning, passing, defense. I'm just curious as to who you think is the best.
As close as Jordan? I can't find career stats for Robertson or Magic, but I'll do the Hakeem comparison. Dream-22.5 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.5 apg, 3.18 bpg, 3.6 fpg, 1.77 spg Jordan-31.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.4 apg, .89 bpg, 2.7 fpg, 2.48 spg %'s-Jordan takes over a 10 percentage point lead over Dream in both free throw shooting and 3-point shooting. Dream takes less than 1 percentage point in field goal percentage. Dream takes rebounds, blocks, and field goal percentage. Jordan takes points, assists, fouls, steals, ft and 3-point percentage, and titles. Some of dream's numbers can definitely be attributed to his steep decline over the last few years, but I still believe Jordan takes a slight edge over the competition.
Yes the non stop constant updates on anything Jordan is really getting annoying! I can't take much more of it!
If you start comparing stats, I'd be happy to take Oscar Robertson's... G Min FG% FT% RPG APG Stl Blk Pts PPG 1040 43886 .485 .838 7.5 9.5 77 4 26710 25.7
Look, Half the world's writers live right here in DC. The Redskins suck. So what else they gonna write about....It pays the bills my friends. It's also quite the story. A man challenging his own legacy. How much better does it get?
Some of dream's numbers can definitely be attributed to his steep decline over the last few years, but I still believe Jordan takes a slight edge over the competition. When I read vj23k's post, it seemed to me like he was saying Jordan was the best because he was one of the best at everything for his position. In my opinion, so were the other three players that I mentioned (Oscar, Magic & Hakeem). You have to look past numbers. DarkHorse: I don't see how you can't include Oscar and Hakeem in that elite group. Kim: As far as Magic & his "10 titles without Bird" goes, consider this: 79-80: Lakers win (against the Sixers) 80-81: Lakers lose in first round, but Magic was hurt for most of the season 81-82: Lakers win (against the Sixers) 82-83: Lakers lose in Finals to Philly, but Worthy broke his leg and missed the playoffs 83-84: Lakers lose in Finals to Celtics 84-85: Lakers win (against the Celtics) 85-86: Lakers lose in WCF to Rockets 86-87: Lakers win (against the Celtics) 87-88: Lakers win (against the Pistons) 88-89: Lakers lose in Finals to Pistons, but Magic and Scott are injured in the Finals 89-90: Lakers lose in WCF to Suns, but no Kareem 90-91: Lakers lose in Finals to Bulls Now that's 12 years, 9 trips to the Finals (5-4 record), 2 defeats in the WCF and 1 defeat in the first round. Three of the teams that beat them in the Finals were the Sixers, Celtics and Pistons (and I would pick any of them over Jordan's Bulls, but that's another topic). They lost 7 times, but key players were injured during three runs (80-81, 82-83, 88-89) and Kareem was gone for the final two (89-90, 90-91) when the team was much older. They only got beat with a full, healthy squad twice (83-84, 85-86). I know injuries are a part of the game, but I don't recall any key Bulls player being injured during a title run. Now, if you are going to give Jordan the benefit of the doubt about capturing an extra title or two during the Rocket's runs (even though we kicked their ass on a consistent basis), then I don't see how you can't give Magic that same benefit. I'm not saying he would have had ten titles, but I know his team was there, every year, and the teams that won titles in the years the Lakers were missing someone were teams the Lakers had proven that they could beat when it mattered (Sixers & Pistons). Not to mention that the teams that beat them were all "arguably" better than Jordan's teams (except for the Rocket's, but they get the nod cause this is the clutch bbs).
For a second, I thought the Duke of Truth was back. That was even a little poem. But the spelling is flawless.
I think that 8 points and 2 rebounds in <B>ONE</B> quarter in one's first game back in 3 years is pretty impressive. If you're not a math major, that would equal 32 points and 8 rebounds in a game. Not bad for a 38 year old. And I call bull**** on all of you (except JV) who say that they would b**** about the Rockets getting all the attention.
Lol. You caught me in a pretty combative mood yesterday. Btw, this thread has devolved into the very thing it was started in order to condemn: Jordan-worship.
I'll admit it. I love reading about Jordan (especially since I drafted him in my fantasy league), so I thought I'd rile you hatas up a bit by posting the following link. Keep in mind the title of the article is "Stackhouse Steals the Show in Detroit Win". Now with that title in mind, tell me if you notice anything bizarre about the entire "game recap". I can't help but laugh as I finished reading it. ----------------------------------------- Stackhouse steals the show in Detroit Win GRAND RAPIDS, Mich., Oct. 18 (AP) -- Michael Jordan's comeback took another step Thursday. No, he didn't soar through the air for his first dunk since 1998. But he played 32 minutes -- three more than his first two games combined -- and scored 24 points, grabbed six rebounds and had an assist as his Washington Wizards lost 114-88 to the Detroit Pistons in a preseason game Thursday night. A sold-out crowd of 11,639 at Van Andel Arena was pleased that Jordan decided to play despite straining his left foot Saturday at Miami. "It felt good for me to go those extra minutes," Jordan said. "Those extra minutes and the four preseason games we're going to play in five nights next week will be another test." Detroit's Jerry Stackhouse scored a game-high 36 points. The Pistons outscored the Wizards 31-10 in the final quarter. Jordan was 7-of-20 from the field and 9-of-12 from the free throw line in his third exhibition game since returning from a three-year layoff. The five-time regular-season MVP and six-time NBA champion with the Chicago Bulls didn't look as spectacular as he did when he scored 18 first-quarter points against the Heat. Rather, he looked like a player still trying to shake off some rust. However, Detroit coach Rick Carlisle was impressed after watching the Wizards-Heat game on tape. "I thought he played better than he did in that game," Carlisle said. "He looked more comfortable out there ... I knew he was going to be great and he's great." Jordan made a few crafty cuts to the basket -- with and without the ball -- but was unable to finish several layups, both of the standard and reverse variety. "I don't doubt that those type of situations will be completed once the season starts," Jordan said. "I'm getting there. I'm getting my legs back. You guys are anxious for me to dunk the ball." His shooting touch away from the lane was also inconsistent, as the 13 missed shots showed. However, Jordan was able to get to the free throw line early and often by drawing fouls in the post and on the perimeter. Michael Curry, who picked up four fouls guarding Jordan, doesn't think Jordan was getting special treatment from the officials, although he complained after each call. "I don't focus on fouls like that," Curry said. On defense, Jordan looked savvy at times by getting into the passing lane and knocking a pass out of bounds as he did 39 seconds into the game. He looked vulnerable during other sequences, however, picking up three first-half fouls and five in the game. Curry, never known for his offensive skills, scored easily on Jordan with a drop-step move a few minutes into the game. Since Jordan is playing small forward, instead of shooting guard, he will be in a position to get a lot of rebounds as he did Thursday with six on the defensive end. Jordan said he will have to adjust his playing style with the position switch. "I'm going to have to use my quickness," he said, "because some of those guys are stronger than me." Jordan was only able to practice on Wednesday after hurting his foot on Saturday. "It's going to be important for Michael to practice with us," Washington coach Doug Collins said. The Wizards' next game is Saturday against New Jersey, their only preseason game at MCI Center.
In case you didn't catch it : Stackhouse supposedly "stole the show", but his name was mentioned a grand total of once in the article and that was just to state his point total. Only two other players were mentioned in the entire article : Jordan and the guy guarding Jordan. The whole freakin' recap is about Jordan! lol! Did anybody else play?
