1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Jordan: 'I could have scored 100 points' in today's NBA

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by ktbballplaya, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. albuster

    albuster Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    71
    There is a huge difference between the two though. Jordan was a far superior player in all categories, including defense, than Kobe.
     
  2. albuster

    albuster Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    71
    Your use of general stats, derived from the internet without the benefit of context and empirical data is seriously flawed, thus your conclusions are pathetically skewed.

    The use of the data for the average pts/gm for the whole NBA to make a conclusion or extrapolation on a specific player's performance or average scoring is too illogical and mind boggling. There are too many variables, like the number of teams, the rules, the quality of players per team, per division, per conference and overall, the quality of officiating, etc. does not provide for simplistic conclusion of teams offensive and defensive prowess, and conflating that data minefield with normative conclusions of how an individual player can score and how much, how often, etc.

    To simplify an illustration of your erroneous extraction of a seemingly simple data to provide a conclusion on the usage of the league scoring average to promote a certain conclusion about Jordan's scoring. For instance, the league in the era you mentioned had a basic difference in offensive philosophy in the Eastern and Western Conference. The Eastern teams were generally bent on a grind it out defensive struggle, while the Western ones were free flowing run and gun teams. This alone would cause an imbalance in the overall averages. There were also many struggling teams in the league whose scoring, even if there were only a handful of them, as a point of illustration, would be a major factor in the overall league scoring average.

    It would make you look really cool and all that to cite dead stats gathered from the internet but if you do not put those stats and data in their proper context, and allow for the myriad variables as they affect your data then you are dead wrong in all of your observations and conclusions.
     
  3. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    29,843
    Likes Received:
    12,943
    I was not saying that Kobe was equal to Jordan. My point was, every era has legends. They are called "legends" exactly because some of the things remembered by fans about these players are "legends." I watched Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Jordan, etc. play in their prime. My memories of them are of "legend" status, making me believe that no one in the current era could have held their jocks.

    But then, I have heard similar things about players before my time, guys like Wilt, Russell, West, Oscar. I am pretty sure Kobe, Lebron, Shaq, etc. will one day reach the legend status. The now young fans of these players will tell the next generation of fans how incredibly unstoppable these guys were and so on.

    To me, comparing players across eras is never an exact science, even if you have stats to aid the objectivity a little. The game evolves. Technology of the game evolves. Coaching evolves. Players evolve too.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    The bulls team MJ had, had 3.x more possessions per game than 2010's average team. MJ also had a 2nd highest usage in history in 1987, only slightly behind Kobe in 2006.

    Let's say MJ keeps that usage, with 3.x less possessions he's going to shoot 1.x less. Ending up with about 2 points. That brings his PPG to about 35.

    How does that make it easy to score 100 a game is still beyond me.

     
  5. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,036
    Likes Received:
    760
    I don't think he said he could average 100 ppg. The way I interpret it, he feels like he could've scored 100 pts at least once in his career if he were playing in today's game in his prime.
     
  6. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    If his scoring average is down, his chance to get a high point game is also down.

    He only reached 60+ twice in his career without OT, both came off 1987 at 61 points. And we know he had career high 37PPG in 1987, and 1987 also had the fastest pace in last 40 years. The leagued averaged 110 points, 10% more than today.

    Unless you just believe Jordan religiously. It's easy to see the high correlation between his career high games and his career season average and league average. Now the league average is down, possessions are less. It would be harder for him to make 60 points when the goal is to win the game, let alone 100 (how Robinson and shaq contested for scoring champion in a meaningless last regular season game is another story)






     
  7. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,036
    Likes Received:
    760
    Ever heard of the phrase "reversion to the mean"?

    All your references to his career high stats/seasons are ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT. Do you understand that?

    His claim is predicated on today's rules in today's game. So what good is it to argue about what he did with more difficult rules?

    And he makes sense. He'd get to the basket a lot easier since there's neither handchecking nor dominant bigs to protect the basket. He'd shoot a lot more free throws which would give him extra rest and free points.

    And if you consider the fact that there are some garbage teams in the league, then yes, I believe he could've done it.
     
  8. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trust me, you are wasting your time arguing with this guy.
     
  9. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    WTF, you seriously know anything about statistics?
    Reversion to the mean, also called regression to the mean, is the statistical phenomenon stating that the greater the deviation of a random variate from its mean, the greater the probability that the next measured variate will deviate less far. In other words, an extreme event is likely to be followed by a less extreme event.

    So if Jordan had a 100 points game, he's likely to not have another right after that. But how does this make it easier to score 100 in the first place?

    Ever heard of confidence level? When the mean is down, the previous high outliner becomes a higher outliner and the odds of that happening is lower.

     
  10. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    Of course, after you made those bold claim and prediction in finals, only to be proved completely wrong afterwards. It's actually a good advice.

     
  11. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    The forum has a search. Go ahead and find a post where I predicted any such thing. Typical of your culture to lie and spread propaganda.
     
  12. Artestsuckskobe

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    20
  13. Scram

    Scram Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't see how everyone tries to compair the two.... and Jordan could score 100 points if he was given each shot down, but so could kobe he already proved he could do that but he had to. Kobe had Smush Parker, kwame Brown, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, should i go on? well he had to take over the game Jordan never had a game like kobe because he didnt have to i don't care what anyone says Jordan did not have half as bad of a team as kobe did in the 6 years between rings.

    Also look at the stats kobe might have the numbers Jordan has if he didnt go right onto a championship type team that didnt play rookies.... Kobe for his first three seasons had about 8-17 mins of play in games and thats why his career stats go down a lot of points, he didnt get to come into the league and go onto a team that could let him start of the bat like Jordan did.

    When you talk about Jordan you are stupid if you dont think of scottie pippen he was "THERE" for all 6 rings and his numbers are better then almost everyone in the league at the time so Jordan wasnt out there by himself!

    Like i said they both started different ways had different type of teams kobe had all stars and couldnt make him self one his rookie year because of playing time. Plus Different eras/ type of play.... There will not be another Jordan and there will not be another Kobe.
     
  14. albuster

    albuster Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    71
    Jordan scored 63 points in a playoff game against the Celtics which was arguably considered the best team of all time. His team then consisted of Dave Corzine at center, Orlando Woolridge, David Greenwood, Wes Matthews, Quintin Dailey, and so forth. Now, tell me if anyone of these names sound even remotely familiar to you.

    And just as a tiny bit of info, Jordan was persuaded by Phil Jackson, when he took over the coaching job for the Bulls, to tone down his game, particularly his offense, so that he could involve his other team mates more. Just imagine if Jordan did not tone down his offense when Pippen and company were his team mates. Scoring 100 pts. in at least one game would have not been impossible. Besides, when Jordan was playing, all those who bet against him lost. So there.

    Kobe is nowhere near Jordan as a player by any stretch of the imagination. If you had ever seen Jordan play, you wouldn't even consider the comparison.
     
  15. Scram

    Scram Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    1
    Umm. seen him play? i watched all of Jordans games and know all about the people he played with, And still he never had near as bad of a team as Kobe has had, Im a huge Jordan Fan and a Kobe fan. But i still stand behind what i put as an earlier post. You can't compair the two, and if you asked me who could put up more points in a game it would be kobe. If you asked me who is the better all around player it is Jordan.
     
  16. Scram

    Scram Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    1
    Also you are telling me that if Kobe only played 18 games like Jordan did because of his broken foot... That Kobes time would of even made it to the playoff you're joking.
     
  17. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    You've got to be kidding. The team Jordan was drafted onto was worse than anything Kobe has every played on.
     
  18. ASidd_1990

    ASidd_1990 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,732
    Likes Received:
    87
    How has this turned into a Kobe vs. Jordan thread?

    Jordan is the GOAT, end of discussion!

    Kobe couldn't hold MJ's jockstrap.

    If MJ really set his mind to it, he could score 100 easily.
     
  19. Scram

    Scram Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    1
    if you read my comments im saying you can't compair the two... and the only reason kobe has to be in this is the fact he scored 62 in 3 quarters and then 81 in 3 quarters.... so he would be a guy that could score 100. Jordan is just mad and as much as i think he is the best ever to play as of right now, when people look back in 20 years or so its going to be kobes 81 not any of jordans overtime 60 point games.
     
  20. ASidd_1990

    ASidd_1990 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,732
    Likes Received:
    87
    when people look back at it, they will remember MJ as the GOAT while Kobe would be mentioned as the runner up to MJ.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now