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Jordan and Real Defenses

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by crossover, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Jordan's loses and difficulties vs the Rockets in the early 90s doesn't diminish his status as on the greats.

    However most people diminish Hakeem's accomplishments and have a hard time admitting or even trying to find the actual facts of the Rockets vs Bulls matchups cause they want to have this image of an invincible Michael Jordan.

    Its ok that he lost to the Pistons, Celtics in the playoffs and had difficulties against a Olajuwon team of any era.

    Doesn't mean we think he wasn't the best or one of the best or we hate him. If Jordan destroyed the Rockets like Gary Payton destroying Steve Francis and Matt Maloney, a Rockets fan will glady admit this truth.

    Its the Jordan fans who won't admit the truth about the Rockets.
     
  2. goodbug

    goodbug Member

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    Guys, there's no zone in MJ's era. That means strict man 2 man, no soft double, no double without ball. MJ wouldn't get ISO down low in his sweet spot, and he'll have to launch a lot of more 3, his weakest spot. The entire 90s features ISO. How many ISO you see nowadays, the defense simply wouldn't allow it.

    I think Kobe can easily shoot over 50% in MJ's era. 2 seasons ago, he was getting most his scores down low for a month too and shot over 50%. In no time, all teams sent a soft double when he tried to establish position before he even got the ball, that's illegal defense for MJ's era. You simply have to have a guy sticks to Rodman even he couldn't shoot in that era. And above all, how many guys were as strong and fast as Artest/Bowen in MJ's era? Like one, and he happened to play along MJ!

    MJ's domination was due to inadequate competition and man2man rule, don't get over carried by "hand check". You saw Kobe play international game, in which even more "handcheck" is allowed and he wasn't affected.

    "MJ rules" designed by Pistons was to stop MJ from scoring. And the essense of it was "more often they would run a double-team at him as soon as he touched the ball to try to force him to give it up"
    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&
    p=3985177

    And why is it so easy today? Because with zone, you can have a guy stay in between your opponents' best and worst offensive player, and dare their worst to shoot jumper, and if their best gets the ball, it's much easier to double in time.
     
  3. goodbug

    goodbug Member

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    Just think about this. MJ was doubled, Rodman had no one covered him in 10 feet. MJ swung to Rodman, he couldn't shoot. But someone had to go at him immediately and left MJ single-covered otherwise it's a illegal defense, in no time the ball would be swung back and this time you couldn't get back soon enough to double MJ.

    Can you imagine any team doing that today?
     
  4. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

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    I think today's version of the game is great in it's own way. It does not have Jordan, but it has more stars as a whole and there are about ten teams that play basketball at an elite level.
     
  5. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Member

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    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5auPSMaD3vE&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5auPSMaD3vE&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  6. goodbug

    goodbug Member

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    How about show me one video clip in which MJ got doubled or soft doubled before he even got the ball
    like the one below?
    Your video showed MJ got doubled with the ball, fine, how many of them were showing him backing down with single guy in his back? And why was that?

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4kYBeNQdSCc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4kYBeNQdSCc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



     
  7. ccjj

    ccjj Member

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    I take this as classroom defence material!!
     
  8. LLFoolJ

    LLFoolJ Member

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    I love this, I was so pissed at Horace Grant for turncoating. I remember next year Jordan came back and swept the Magic. It was beautiful.
     
  9. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Member

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    Did you watch the whole video? Look, I don't know how old you are but I can already tell you're young enough to be in the Kobe era group. Kobe is a great player no doubt but not better than Michael. If you're gonna argue about defenses and "Soft" and "Hard" double teams, zones, you need to really educate yourself on how and why the NBA changed some of it's rules.(Here's a hint, more scoring and giving the advantage to the offensive player) And I don't need video clips, I actually watched MJ play.
     
  10. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    I remember that Jordan was there already in 1995 (video shows), so 1996 is not a comeback. Oh, the Bulls did get some Dennis guy too.
     
  11. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Yeah, that Dream guy faced lots of illegal defense too.

    Oh Dennis Rodman was a stud who grabbed a billion rebounds so MJ and Scottie didn't have to.
     
  12. NADman

    NADman Member

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    MJ is the best all time. Kobe nuthuggers, stop the whining. We know you young bucks are too young to remember the greatest of all time, Michael Jordan.
     
  13. London'sBurning

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    Kobe isn't even the best player in the NBA right now.
     
  14. goodbug

    goodbug Member

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    It's so funny in the video you post, MJ so often backed down single guy and you can't see 2nd defender around until he's in the paint. Zone was illegal in MJ's era. That means no double or soft double without ball, once ball's out of MJ's hands. The 2nd defender had to look like he's trying to guard someone else or it's illegal. Is that clear?

    One video is worth one thousand words, my friend. I am old enough to watch Bird and Magic play. I am not talking about Kobe's better than MJ. But it's a damn fact that zone can contain your best player way better and force you beat them as a team.

     
  15. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Handchecking and no such thing as defensive 3 seconds.
     
  16. goodbug

    goodbug Member

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    Defensive 3 seconds was to limit the power of the zone. It would be illegal defense too (guard nobody sitting download is typical zone) in MJ's era. For handchecking, check the final clips someone posted above, no hand checking was called there, in several plays defense players used both hands to check and it wasn't called, that's illegal in MJ's era. Handcheck rule is reserved for players like Wade and LBJ.

     
  17. dream_team

    dream_team Member

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    kobe & jordan are both great players... they both would adjust to whatever the defense gives them. kobe in the 90's, jordan today, would both still be among the greatest ever.

    coaches are smart as well, and would adjust defenses to what they're allowed to do to stop a certain player. you don't take out hand-checking and automatically assume jordan would score 50/game. defenses would adjust... and who knows? maybe jordan's assist goes up, but his scoring goes down?
     
  18. Pest_Ctrl

    Pest_Ctrl Member

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    Please go back and watch some real games, not just clips on youtube, like Bulls vs. Pistons or Bulls vs. Knicks. Just watch those "Jordan Rules" games, then come back and comment who faced harder defense.
     
  19. goodbug

    goodbug Member

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    I watched Bird/Magic play their finals live. I know how MJ played his game. And unfortuately, only Pistons used "Jordan Rules", so what did he play against in the others?

    It's funny MJ acknowledged the best defender he faced in his career was Joe Dumars. 6-3 Joe Dumars, are you kidding me? Kobes and TMacs would just rise over these guys and knock down jumpers.


     
  20. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    why are you putting Tmac in the same sentence as Kobe?

    Those Pistons team would have killed Tmac. Dantley, Rodman, Laimbeer, Vinny Johnson.. He would never get to the paint, he would just settle for jumpers that misses (like the ones he kept missing for us against Utah)
     

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