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Jokic IS more skilled than Hakeem...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bleedroxred79, Feb 9, 2022.

  1. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    sure, but most of Giannis’s defensive greatness is due to his combination of height, length, and athleticism which are God given physical attributes

    Is Giannis 1 of the most skilled players ever then according to u? He’s more skilled than Luka? He’s more skilled than Larry Bird? He’s more skilled than Magic Johnson?
     
  2. j@amc

    j@amc Member

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    Ask Utah's Billy Paulz about this one. Even as a rookie, Hakeem did not put up with antics. Though the punch did not help the Rockets win the game and they lost the series. Maybe, Olajuwon took all that to heart and learned not to incite the other team and give them life.

    And by the way, Mark Eaton would totally be able to cover Jokic in the paint. No double-team required. Hakeem would not require any help. Many of the excellent passes that Jokic gets are based on his ability to draw a second defender. With so many quality big men in Hakeem's era, I think Jokic's numbers would be down.

    Clearly, Jokic is skilled. He probably initiates the break better than Hakeem. And Jokic's face-up from the 3-point line is formidable. But on the whole, the Hakeem vs Jokic matchup is a mismatch.
     
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  3. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    You still have to have anticipation and timing to steal a ball, block a shot or hedge and get back. Yes you can be tall, long and athletic but without the skill set to make it all work, it’s useless.
     
  4. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    So is Giannis more skilled than Luka and Magic Johnson?
     
  5. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Keem David and Tim are the best 2 way bigs to ever do it

    ( I don't count the old geezers who played against mailmen)
     
  6. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    I think a better conversation would be a healthy Yao Ming vs Nikola Jokic. They are/were different types of players, e.g. Yao was a better defender/shot blocker and Jokic was a better passer.

    Yao just suffered from injuries, mainly Tracy McGrady disease, and a weird lack of respect from NBA writers. (Like seriously, Yao has 0 All Defensive team selections).
     
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  7. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    They are more skilled offensively and I’ll take Giannis defensively. And I love Magic, he’s the best PG of all time
     
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  8. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    So that’s a yes that Giannis is more skilled than Luka and Magic?
     
  9. Homey the Clown

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    Fkin writers always find ways to downplay Hakeem's legacy.
     
  10. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Defensively yes. Luka and Magic are more offensively skilled.
     
  11. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    How is that any different than James Harden? None of James Harden’s skills have gone anywhere, yet u say Giannis is more skilled than him.
     
  12. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    James was always an average NBA athlete, but now he’s a below average NBA athlete who is surviving with offensive skill and intellect. Defensively James used to struggle mightily because of effort but now it may be due to his athletic decline. Giannis is elite athletically, still improving offensively and has always been more skilled defensively.
     
  13. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    Harden is far more skilled than Giannis on offense…Harden and Luka are on the same level skill-wise, and Luka is no athletic phenom…Luka is also no better than Harden defensively

    Harden’s skills have gone nowhere, he has just declined physically due to age and injury

    Giannis can’t just be more skilled defensively when talking about Luka, but more skilled period when talking about Harden
     
  14. Rockets34Legend

    Rockets34Legend Contributing Member

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  15. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Joker is only better at passing and 3pt shooting, better handle. I think passing like the Joker is natural, and he'd always have that advantage, but give Hakeem the advantage of the training today in which he won't be fit into a box and he's going to work tirelessly to be a solid 3pt shooter and tighten his handle like a guard.
    I've seen people argue Joker is a better rebounder than Hakeem too, but people can't just look at numbers that are inflated league wide and compare. 14rpg in the positionless era is not equal to 14 in the big man dominated 90s with real C's and real POWER forwards. Just like Russ's uncontested rebounds were not equal to the og triple double guys most recently Kidd and Magic.
    He's efficient inside and probably would remain so, but i'm certain Hakeem's efficiency would go further up in this era facing these F's posing as C's too. Defensively, it's a joke how much further ahead Hakeem is.
    Joker would still be a beast in the 90s and prob top 4 ahead of Ewing and even get the best of the best now and then, but Hakeem would be the top C still and most of the 90s bigs were defensive beasts.

    What i like about Joker is he seems like the kind of guy who would love to bang down low and get mean and rough if the league was like that.
     
  16. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    yao was better than both
     
  17. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    DMo better than all.
     
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  18. groovemachine

    groovemachine Member

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    The person who started this thread is dead to me. Long live The Dream!
     
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  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Jokic is more likely what Sabonis would have been had he come over in his prime… even then, some say Sabonis was even better at his peak.

    Hakeem had speed over Sabonis but his size would cause him issues in terms of getting post position. Hakeem could guard anybody… but his biggest defensive strength was his help defense or ability to serve as a free safety/backup for rim protection. Having to stay at home (or guard Jokic on the perimeter) may ultimately reduce his overall defensive effectiveness, but great players figure it out. Rudy would probably have a PF guard him on the perimeter and have Hakeem available to defend the paint against all players (including Jokic).
     
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  20. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    It's a different era. Organizations are a lot more flexible about what different positions are allowed to do, and players' assumptions about the roles of each position are less baked-in. If Hakeem had been allowed to shoot threes and run the offense more (or been playing in a culture where that was considered a possibility) I think he probably could have done it. His passing probably wouldn't have been quite Jokic level but I think he could have been a great three point shooter if he wanted, probably better than Jokic--he was fire from the midrange.
     

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