Fair enough. It’s debatable. My point was that minus the Hakeem mention I don’t think people would have been outraged by the idea that Jokic is the most skilled offensive big in NBA history. I don’t usually think of the sheer tenacity that it takes to be a great rebounder as “skill”. But I grant that it’s not so easy to pin down what exactly “skill” means in basketball. I think it’s roughly that portion of one’s basketball ability that is not attributable to their physical advantages. But it’s difficult to separate that out.
I don't think Rebounding in and of itself is a skill but there are skills that can be used to be a great rebounder, but I understand that people can look at it differently. Jokic and Hakeem are both great rebounders, so I don't really think this has any bearing on the conversation.
I think 5 people in 2 pages is enough to illustrate my point. And no the uproar is not warranted, especially after all this time, it's like people can't have their own opinions on anything, It's why we are the way we are as a country we can't have decent conversations without calling somebody an idiot because they don't agree with you. I never said defense is not made up of various skills, so I don't know where that came from.
Are you being daft on purpose? Then again, you also claimed rebounding isn't a skill so.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The author of that article's premise is that Jokic is a more skilled player than Dream, not offensively skilled but skilled in general. He then goes on and lists all the (again) offensively skills that Jokic does better with nary the mention of defensive skills and concludes that Jokic is the more skilled (again, overall and not offensively) than Dream. So again, yes the uproar was warranted. Seriously, did you even read the article that started this thread or do you just enjoy answering out of ignorance? As for your point about opinions, that is another straw man argument. No one ever said people couldn't have their own opinions. You are entirely free to have whatever opinion on any topic you want, just don't get butt hurt about it when you get called out on your bad ones. Also, if you think this is limited to the US, boy oh boy are you going to get hit hard in life later on. Finally, he is an idiot for having an idiot take. He is an idiot because he uses skill generally and ignored half the game of basketball. As someone else put it, if Jokic is a 10 for offensive skills than Dream is like an 8-9 while on defensive skills Dream is an 11 (all-time great) and Jokic is whatever paltry number you want to assign him. PS Not even going to comment about your response to the number of posters. 5 is not a significant number no matter how you try to spin it.
You can just look at Rodman and Ben Wallace to know that rebounding is definitely a skill. Both of these guys aren't the biggest, fastest or strongest but they are rebound kings. Physical capabilities are not enough to be a good rebounder.
Obviously you’re talking offensive skill and discounting defensive skill which should be considered. But you’re entitled to your opinion.
So Giannis is more skilled than Steph Curry too? More skilled than Luka? Giannis is 1 of the most skilled players ever? That’s what you’re saying?
Maybe more skilled than Patrick Ewing, Shaq, even Kareem, but comparing him to Hakeem is downright disrespectful. If big men shooting threes was a thing back in the day then Hakeem would have mastered that too. Could Jokic even beat him 1 on 1 right now? I doubt it. We're talking about a man who did what he did while double and triple teamed throughout the course of his career. That video won't get a view from me.
It would be an embarrassing beat down 1v1. Dream is too athletic for Jokic and Dreamnis one of the greatest defensive bigs in NBA history. It wouldn't even be close.
