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John Wall on the Ben Simmons Situation

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Cutty312, Sep 22, 2021.

  1. SuperKev

    SuperKev Contributing Member

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    Actually my business has over 800 employees. Always work with those who have issues but if someone outright refuses to complete a contracted task for reasons outside of an agreement then they have a problem. Not once have I lost a case like that though such cases are rare.

    Responsible people stick by their signed mutual agreements. According to you agreements are meaningless - if you are angry, upset, don't like your coaches, someone says something "bad" about you, and so on.
     
    Yung-T and D-rock like this.
  2. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    I honestly dont believe you, you can say anything on here without proof. Regardless, if its true you would still make a horrible GM if you think how the Sixers FO is treating this situation is how you should do business in NBA. You also put far to much emphasis on NBA contracts given what we've seen in the past. Again I thank god you are not a part of our FO. If anyone in the Sixers front office were in charge of our john wall and eric gordon situation it would be nothing but drama. not to mention Danuel House. All you hear is great things about that guy eventhough he is a jackass. We might be able to trade him with little incident. Plain and simple contract or not PEOPLE ARE NOT SLAVES. You cant treat them anyway you want and talk **** and expect them to just sit their and take it without some type of drama happening. Saying that you can is a flat out lie. Especially if they are willing to not be paid which is the consequence that you dont seem to understand from this entire contract business you keep repeating. Theyve been trying to trade him all year its borderline idiotic to beleive that at some point after being **** on by fans and coaches alike any normal human being wouldnt want out of that situation contract or not. Saying anything else is just a flat out lie im sorry. There were fans burning his jersey and chanting trade ben simmons. The Sixers aswell clearly dont want him and the only reason they are trying to be nice now is because they realized they ruined his trade value and would get nothing or john wall in return. so now its like "we love you ben" and ben is like no thank you. This was predictable and if you couldnt see this coming you are a bad business person.
     
    #82 Joe Rocket, Sep 27, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  3. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    This its been days and he still doesnt get this fact. Whats ironic is they clearly dont want him and he knows that and he's trying to leave but they want let him because they know they wont get what they want in return now after all of this drama. Ben has all the power at this point. Any FO would be idiotic to think they are in power because they have a contract in the NBA lol
     
    D-rock likes this.
  4. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    He's going to be fined losing a lot of money and he's ok with it. you should learn more about the situation.
     
  5. SuperKev

    SuperKev Contributing Member

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    The FO are the ones with the checkbook. They have all the authority they need and indeed the law on their side. Further they have terms that Simmons himself agreed to in writing.

    They already aren't paying Simmons - and they shouldn't pay him. He doesn't play this year then he loses the entire season of remittance. They are making the fines $227k per game. If they terminate him they can sue him for non performance and the resultant damages and it would go well beyond his salary. He will have no legal defense - the coach blaming him for playing poorly is not a legal defense.
     
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  6. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    This is why I believe the NBA has given both the Rockets & Sixers an ultimatum to find another
    home for both Wall and Simmons before the season begins.

    Rockets and Sixers probably have a deal on the table involving each other; but are looking
    for better offers elsewhere. Sixers saying they are trying to find a home for Simmons
    in the Western Conference is a precursor and a way of easing their fan base accordingly.

    I'm guessing the Rockets offer is Wall and 2 first Rd picks, second Rd pick(s). Best offer
    from Houston. Ball is in the court of the King's and T-Wolves......maybe a dark horse team
    to offer better prior to season.

    Lawsuits could be filed from season ticket purchaser's or luxury boxes owners demanding money
    claiming they bought seats or boxes with the belief Wall if healthy was going to play or that
    Simmons if healthy was going to play.

    Gambling is a big business now with the NBA. The dummies that bet their houses on games
    probably have a legal stand as well. This is why I've said the NBA owners and Players Union
    have stakes involved in this. CBA may be deemed worthless and not worth the paper it's written
    on if players don't honor their obligation in the contracts.

    But I'm not a legal advocate......so maybe the fine print and legal jargon gives protections
    to one side or another.....or both. I'm probably way off. It's just a guess.
     
    Believe It! and D-rock like this.
  7. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Trade incoming.

     
  8. SuperKev

    SuperKev Contributing Member

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    You can sue for almost anything but such a suit would almost certainly be considered frivolous in the courts. The more "real" danger is people just don't buy season tickets due to the lack of an exciting product on the court. We have a lot of players where injuries and missing games are common. This really hurts fan enthusiasm which in turn damages the revenue stream.
     
  9. SuperKev

    SuperKev Contributing Member

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    I think they mean just waiting for a trade to occur, not sure this means anything is imminent. I imagine under the current circumstances Simmons would be very, very difficult to trade. Who wants a player who might just refuse to play with many years left on their contract? A difficult pill to swallow to be sure. Whoever does it would need to be damn sure he won't pull the same thing on them.
     
  10. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    Imagine being like "nah, I don't want to show up for my 8 million dollar paycheck."
     
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  11. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Depends on when the bet was made, if they get a refund or money back, imo

    Some people bet millions of dollars

    Each individual that pays a weeks salary on a few games thinking Wall/Simmons was slated to play
    could be added to a law suit. Class action lawsuit. NBA won't want that bad PR

    Refunds galore? I'm no legal eagle so I will just stop now.
     
  12. utgrad97

    utgrad97 Member

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    Just make NBA contracts nonguaranteed like the NFL. Players will adjust.
     
  13. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    It's not as if Philadelphia would cut Simmons anyways lol. Come on now.
     
  14. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    I'm pretty sure when you buy season tickets there are no lineup/player guarantees given to fans or luxury box owners - I would assume that language is specifically written into the terms of purchase. Otherwise sports teams would constantly be in litigation with fans.
     
  15. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    You are missing the big picture here - professional sports leagues don't behave like a free market business because they operate under an extremely limited resource model. The quality of their product is directly dependant on a very limited pool of star basketball players so they can't afford to:
    a.) trash a player's value while they under your contract because then you get less for your asset because no one wants the goods you just damaged (Doc Rivers throwing Simmons under the bus, Morey shopping him forever, Embiid calling him out, and the city generally treating him like trash)
    b.) piss of another good player who otherwise might consider working for them but is now turned off by the way you have thrown that player under the bus. If you know your buddy got treated like trash working at a business, wouldn't you strongly consider NOT working for that business if they offered you a job?

    ...if there are maybe 25 players in the whole world who are better than Ben Simmons -and several of these players are close friends to Simmons, you can't afford to have 10 of them(conservatively) say, "I won't play for that Sixers organization - I don't want to be treated like Ben". It puts your entire organization at a competitive disadvantage that easily costs more money than what you would have lost just paying out $8million dollars.

    That is what is so stupid about this whole thing - the Sixers org doesn't seem to want to lay in the bed they created for themselves. They told him they wanted him to be one of their franchise stars, signed him to a max deal, and immediately started shopping him in trades in the very first season of his max deal. He was always just an asset to the org - never a part of their future plans. What does that tell you about the org's commitment to him? What does that tell other players about the Sixers commitment to their players? Then when it came to a head and they essentially blamed all the orgs failings on Simmons, it hurt his value in the league because you just told the whole league he isn't good enough to be a star on your team and YET the Sixers are unwilling to accept anything less than a king's ransom for him resulting in Simmons being stuck there left to honor a contract at a place where they clearly don't want you to be there.

    Let's assume he "has integrity" as you put it and plays, but is just really depressed and is awful on the court. Does it then become his contractual duty to play like the guy the org thought they were getting? Does he now have his integrity because he suffers through forcing himself to play at a place that doesn't want him that he doesn't want to be at?

    Bottom line is the Sixers have botched this situation at many levels and continue to disrespect Simmons despite him just being the same player we already knew he was. They have to own that they screwed this up, loose value trading him, and move on before they further damage their reputation among the very small number of difference making basketball players in the world who might otherwise consider playing for them.
     
  16. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Well there is a reason the league tells teams, players need to play if healthy. They can get by with a game or two but stretches of 10 to 20 to whole season may be grounds for a lawsuit in my opinion.

    I'm not talking about office pools gambling pots. I'm talking Arab Tycoons possibly betting millions?

    If an entertainer fails to perform a concert and is contractually obligated to perform.....?
    Don't people get their money back? Singers miss due to vocal issues like laryngitis.
    But a healthy scratch? Now factor in betting and exchange of high dollar amounts with
    small volume amounts. Could be a headache that the bookies could have grounds for a suit.
    All partners involved may be due legal ligation.....? especially if other pros follow the same path.

    Next thing you know, you have 10 to 15 or more players not honoring their contracts. What rights
    do we the fans have? Are we being sold a bill of goods not worthy of buying at times? Parents are spending hard earned money so that their kids can see their favorite player.....and then find out the player doesn't
    want to play for that team anymore. That's BS.

    I don't know? I guess people don't bet on the games like pay-per-view boxing or the Superbowl;
    but Vegas almost allows you to bet on anything. How many times a wife or girlfriend of a player
    or coach will be seen on TV. Crazy stuff like that.
     
    #96 ApacheWarrior, Oct 2, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  17. SuperKev

    SuperKev Contributing Member

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    That would be like a class action from fans suing a TV show because they killed off your favorite character. It's silly and has no basis in law. There isn't a guaranteed "value" therefore you cannot be harmed. You cannot sue for potential gains - in effect it would be like suing that your stock who committed no illegal actions dropped rather than gained. Only if the stock put it in writing you are guaranteed to get 5% per annum could you prove harm.
     
  18. SuperKev

    SuperKev Contributing Member

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    This is easy to answer. If a high-skill rare employee underperforms and there are no performance requirements in the mutual agreement then there is no fault on either side. The player is on the court playing in that scenario and simply underperforming (for any reason). This is where the team and player meet to arrive at a mutually agreed upon solution. If no viable solution can be found both parties can live with then there is a legal arbitration built into most contracts. In the rare event legal arb does not yield results then it's the courts.

    The solution cannot be that one side simply breaches, if they do the resolution would be monetary damages. That is why Wall did it correctly and Simmons handled it extremely poorly.
     
  19. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Well I don't see it much different from a singer cancelling a concert.

    Like when Jennifer Lopez cancelled in Cyprus in 2010 for $40M

    https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/...opez-faces-40m-lawsuit-for-canceling-concert/.

    ---------
    I seem to remember Lopez cancelling one time in the past as well in San Antonio or Austin.

    In that lawsuit it was brought out that Lopez being the diva that she is insisted on
    having 1000 white roses be set up throughout her dressing quarters. Promoter's
    wanted their money back for that cost as well, among other things.

    No one is going to a Jennifer Lopez concert to watch only backup dancers.....and many
    76ers fans are paying this year to see Simmons play......those who bought season tickets
    months ago. Embiid is good but he is not the entire show/headliner. Simmons was an All
    Star as well.

    Breach of contract has a trickle down effect
     
    #99 ApacheWarrior, Oct 2, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  20. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    You always retain the right to not purchase something that you don’t think is entertaining - that is your right as a fan…. but it’s wholly unrealistic to expect a refund if a player is hurt, tired, or otherwise unable to play. It’s the risk you take with gambling or purchasing tickets to sporting events - the uncertainty is part of why you do it.
     

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