1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

John Lucas III 1st start: 25 pts, 8 reb, 8 ast, 1 stl

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by BreakYoSelfFool, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390
    PPS is one of my favorite metrics because it is simple and quick to calculate. However, I have been studying Kevin Martin's game lately and been trying to analyze just how offensively efficient he really is and how efficient he has been in light of the fact that some of those flops are no calls and turn in to turnovers on the other end.

    Since it is being brought up here, I'm gonna throw this out and somebody tell me if it is already a metric.

    [Total Points + (Assists x 2)]/[FGA + (FTA/2) + TOs + Assists] = My Personal Possession Productivity Efficiency Stat


    I don't know what to call it technically. Don't know how close it mimicks efg or ADJ or PER or EFF or any other efficiency stat, but basically it's a dirty PRODUCTION PER POSSESSION for a player. Just something I can figure up fairly quickly that give me an idea of how productive and efficient a player is when the ball is in his hands because it includes shots and free throws (most FTs are on the ball fouls), and includes assists and turnovers as part of the possessions. I know I'm not including how many three point plays are a part of the Free throw attempts and how many 3 point shots are a result of the assists but I kinda figured they probably offset somewhat for the purposes of figuring possessions.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    41
    By the way John Wall is looking to have a breakout year...
     
  3. emjohn

    emjohn Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    12,132
    Likes Received:
    567
    Yep. That's the big thing I love about it, because it indirectly clues you in on true efficiency as a scorer.

    You want guys that can nail 3s, obviously, but it's underrated from the fan side how important it is to have an And-1 machine. Guys with contact-allergies that overdribble on the perimeter and jack up 20+ footers can kill a team - feast or famine relying on those jumpers to fall plus long rebounds igniting fast breaks the other way.

    Take that versus guys that can go strong to the whole and finish (in his prime Paul Pierce or Shaq). One, you've got a high percentage shot. Two, you've got the FT. Three, you're getting the other team in foul trouble (affecting their aggressiveness on D) and helping your guys get into the bonus. Fourth, those misses are still golden opportunity tip ins.

    Check out the PPS metric towards the end of a season (or in career stats). You're going to keep seeing those And-1 machines in there. You're going to keep seeing volume shooting, scared to take it to the rim pretenders waffling well below 1.3 pps.

    And I'll further guarantee that every coach in the league would kill to have the high PPS guys while wishing he could amnesty the lowest ones.

    Last year's top PPS
    • Dwight Howard
    • Nene Hilario
    • Chauncy Billups
    • Kevin Martin
    • Paul Pierce
    • Kevin Love
    • Dirk Nowitzki
    • Emeka Okafor
    • LeBron James
    • Kevin Durant



    Bottom PPS
    • Joe Johnson
    • Michael Beasely
    • Andrew Bogut
    • CJ Miles
    • Brandon Jennings
    • Tayshaun Prince
    • Tyreke Evans
    • Trevor Ariza
    • Rajon Rondo
    • OJ Mayo

    It's by no means an infallible measure of who's "better"...but it's a much better measure than PPG, which too many fans are married to.
     
  4. jackie_moon23

    jackie_moon23 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    1
    We got Terrell Harris doing work down in Miami too!
     
  5. WFU Guy

    WFU Guy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    30
    I have often thought that there could be an improved metric on a player's offensive contribution/detriment. I wish the following were recorded: track the assist that leads to the assist, track the assisted visit to the charity stripe (weighted for FT%), and subtract the assisted turnovers (passes that directly lead to a TO - measured in the same way you do an assisted basket). Ultimately, you need to watch film and ding a guy for every open look he passes up - in a 24 second clock, those seem to be the biggest causes that lead to turnovers. If you got 1 pt for each assisted assist, then you'd lose one for each open look passed up. But that type of metric would be impossible to track (heck, if noone is counting the assisted tos and fts, so are they).

    Also, I would not count last second of the shot-clock/game-clock shots against a players shooting percentage (made or missed). As it is, it penalizes players that get shorter burn on the court that are savvy enough to see the clock winding down - I saw this happen to Ish Smith last year for you guys on several occasions and thought it always skewed his already poor shooting percentage further down. But it goes way beyond him, seems like guys that get very little court time will often have an 0-3 night or the like but if you watched the game, only one might be a quality shot missed, the others was a shot clock scramble and the end of the half.

    On the defensive side, the guy that blocks out well enough to cause a team or other player's rebound, that should be a partial rebound (assisted rebound) for that player. At the end, if you have a center that blocks out to let a guard continually clean up defensive boards, the stat sheet will give a very compelling argument that a PG was all over the glass. Same thing goes for tap out rebounds. To me, those things are what we always say aren't on the stat sheet but I wish they would be (but admittedly, they might be open to interpretation - not like a missed shot turned into an assist hasn't been too).
     
  6. sinobball

    sinobball Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    JL3 followed it up with a 0p (0/3FG) night
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now