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John Kerry Distorts the Economy's Performance for Political Gain

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by El_Conquistador, Apr 13, 2004.

  1. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Hennessey,

    Are you unable to respond to my very salient and factually accurate economic points? Without some kind of rebuttal from you, I am forced to declare

    CHECKMATE
     
  2. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    "Compassionate Conservative" = The Grand Illusion
     
  3. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Actually, unless American companies hire over 3 million people in the next few months, GWB will be the only president since Hoover to have a negative net job creation number.
     
  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    This is factually inaccurate. Andymoon, please correct this to reflect the jobs created under the current administration. Once that is completed, please apologize to the BBS for distorting facts in an effort to discourage Americans.
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

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    You... you brute... I'm wounded... must... slink away...
    devastated... CHECKMATE is too kind...


    I have yet to see any facts. There is speculation and spin and selective interpretation and distortion, on both sides. To start with, you cannot label future tense assertions as "facts." This is so boring. Later.

    Sincerely,
    Jill Hennessey
    star of "Crossing Jordan" and, sadly, T_J's late-night fantasies
     
  6. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    T_J, I'm so happy that you like Jimmy Carter. You're coming around.....
     
  7. BlastOff

    BlastOff Member

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    T_J = LHutz with spellcheck
     
  8. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Hennessey, there are quite a few facts in this post which you are selectively ignoring. These facts point to a very strong Misery Index, as properly measured by adding the inflation rate and the unemployment rate. You, like John Forbes Kerry, are choosing to ignore what doesn't suit your argument. Too bad.
     
  9. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    The current administration has not created any jobs. In fact, more people have dropped out of the job market than at any time in the last 50 years, leading to the 5.7% unemployment rate that you are touting. The current administration is running, by the estimates of the GOP, 2.4 million jobs behind.

    BTW, you claimed that the economy has created 650,000 jobs in 7 months. What you leave out is that you have to create 100,000 per month just to keep up with new entries into the job market. Using simple math, this means that over the 7 month period you are talking about, the job market is behind by 50,000 jobs. Not as bad as the previous 2.5 years, but negative growth nonetheless. This is also why, despite "adding" a significant number of jobs last month, the unemployment rate edged UP by .1%.

    The BBS is expecting YOUR apology for distorting facts in an effort to snow Americans.

    You are on the clock.
     
  10. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    This is an outright lie. Let all be aware that andymoon has no problem lying to you. When given the chance to amend his previous lie, he responds with another lie. DISGRACEFUL. If he is not lying, then his level of economic understanding is beneath that of a first-day economic student. Not a first-year, but a first-day. andymoon, you pick which one you are.

    GOOD DAY
     
  11. Vik

    Vik Member

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    It's all fun and games until somebody disrespects Styx... Really guys, I thought you knew better.

    ;)
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    From January 2004

    Average monthly new jobs projected by Bush admin - 200,000

    Average monthly new jobs economy would generate without tax cuts as estimated by Bush admin. - 228,333

    Average monthly new jobs promised from tax breaks - 306,000

    Number of new jobs Bush promised, June through October - 1,224,000

    Number of new jobs Bush actually produced, June through October - 229,000

    Shortfall below projection - 995,000

    Number of jobs lost to date since Bush took office - 2.44 million

    Bush admin. projection of new jobs created by end of 2004 - 2.0 million

    Bush admin. projection of net new jobs created by end of 2004 - 430,000 jobs lost

    Last president to lose jobs during entire first term - Herbert Hoover

    US Manufacturing jobs lost since Bush took office, 2 years, 10 months - 2.59 million

    Budget surplus 2001, when Bush took office + $127 Billion

    Bush estimate of Budget deficit FY 2003 - $401 billion

    Average annual tax cut Bush promised to Americans - $1000

    Average tax cut actually received by 65 million Americans - $19

    Average tax cut actually received by top 1% - $28,414

    Dollars short of Bush promise in his Leave No Child Behind act - $9.4 billion short

    Amount federal spending on public schools, two years - $59 billion

    Amount federal spending for Iraq, Afghanistan two years - $166 billion

    Decrease, medium household income, last two years - $1,439

    Annual minimum wage earnings for full time worker - $10,712

    Vice President Dick Cheney annual salary from government - $192,600

    2001 Halliburton payments to Vice President Cheney (yearly) - $205,298

    Value of no bid contracts awarded to Halliburton in Iraq - $948 million

    Sources:

    i New York Times, Edmund Andrews. “Treasury Chief Sees a Job Boom, But Most Don’t.” (October, 21 2003)
    ii Council of Economic Advisors projection (2/2003)—explained at,
    http://www.jobwatch.org/creating/bkg/grading_jobs_and_growth_plan.pdf
    iii Council of Economic Advisors projection (2/2003)—explained at,
    http://www.jobwatch.org/creating/bkg/grading_jobs_and_growth_plan.pdf
    iv Job Watch, www.jobwatch.org. Derived from Council on Economic Advisors projections
    v Job Watch, www.jobwatch.org.
    vi Bureau of Labor Statistics, numbers in thousands: Change in seasonally adjusted non farm employment level: 132388
    (Jan. ’01) – 12994(Oct. ’03) = -2.44 million jobs lost. http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cesbtab1.htm
    vii New York Times: Edmund Andrews. “Treasury Chief Sees a Job Boom, But Most Don’t.” (October, 21 2003)
    viii New York Times, David Leonhardt. “Bush Record on Jobs: Risking Unhappy Comparisons.” July 3, 2003, citing
    information compiled from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
    ix Bureau of Labor Statistics, http://www.bls.gov/data/home.htm
    x Determined by adding Treasury Secretary Snow’s projected job growth (2 million) to the 2.44 million jobs already lost
    during the administration.
    xi Bureau of Labor Statistics, 19.5 million manufacturing jobs in 1979 – 17.1 million 2000= 2.4 million. http://www.bls.gov
    xii Bureau of Labor Statistics: 16.993 million (manufacturing jobs in January 2001) -14.398 (manufacturing jobs in October
    2003) = 2.59 million lost since Bush took office. http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cesbtab1.htm
    xiii Congressional Budget Office, http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1821&sequence=0#table11
    xiv Congressional Budget Office, http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1944&sequence=0
    xv State of the Union address 2003, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
    xvi Citizens for Tax Justice http://www.ctj.org/pdf/2003statecut.pdf
    xvii Citizens for Tax Justice-- http://www.ctj.org/pdf/sen0522.pdf
    xviii NEA-- http://www.nea.org/esea/eseafunding.html
    xix Budget of the US Government http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2003/hist.html
    xx Washington Post—Chris Van Hollen, “Paying the Postwar Tab With Plastic.” (October 27, 2003). 87 billion requested
    plus 79 billion already spend = 166 billion dollars.
    xxi U.S. Census Bureau-Median household income has dropped 3.3% over the past two years. This decline represents a loss
    of $1,439 over the past two years. http://www.census.gov, also available at
    http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_income
    xxii EPI-- http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwagefaq
    xxiii Office of Personnel Management, www.opm.gov
    xxiv Office of Government Ethics, Cheney’s financial disclosure filings
    xxv New York Daily News, Kenneth R. Bazinet. “Halliburton Contracts in Iraq my Trigger Congressional Probe.”
    (September 19, 2003.)
     
  13. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    is this much different than the admin trying to classify burger flippers as manufacturing jobs?
     
  14. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    MCMark....how dare you infuse facts into a D&D thread! Shame!!!!
     
  15. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    You are really showing your lack of knowledge when you include a comment made in the context of a hypothetical as definitive evidence. Go back, research the comment, and then apologize to us all. Don't go bear hunting with a stick, rookie.
     
  16. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    By the way, would anyone like to discuss the Misery Index that John Forbes Kerry is now advancing?

    Or are you all going to continue blaming the Bush Administration for jobs lost due to 9-11 and the bursting of the technology bubble?
     
  17. kpsta

    kpsta Member

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    *unless that stick is made of pepperoni
     
  18. Chump

    Chump Member

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    1st, pretty funny that you are extolling the greatness of an index invented my Jimmy Carter

    2nd, the misery index really doesn't tell us squat as it is esstentially at the same level as it was when Bush took office and I doubt anyone will say that our economy is the same today as it was in Jan 2001.

    "The most recent statistics, for February, put the misery index at 7.3 percent, a combination of 1.7 percent inflation and 5.6 percent unemployment. The rate was down to about 6.7 percent in January 2000, and was at 7.9 percent when Bush took office in January 2001. Through the rest of that year it fluctuated, dropping as low as 7.2 percent."

    3rd...Take the spin away and what index says is exactly what Kerry says it is, that it "puts together the kitchen table economic issues that determine whether working families are feeling economic anxiety or economic optimism"

    Those are median family income, college tuition, health costs, gasoline cost, bankruptcies, home ownership rate, and private-sector job growth.

    So T_J, are you saying that each of these things should just be ignored? Don't you think that each American family is affected by each of these?

    Just from 2002 to 2003:

    Wages are down 0.2 percent
    College tuition is up 13 percent – the largest increase on record
    Health premiums are up 11 percent – the largest increase since 1977
    Gasoline prices are up 15 percent – the second largest increase since 1980

    These price level increases hit each American family in the pocketbook right now!
     
  19. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    I can only laugh when I read some of these attempts at justifying John Forbes Kerry's latest economic slander piece. You want to talk about costs? Let's talk about the cost that impacts every single financial transaction in the United States: The cost of money. Interest rates are near all time lows right now. Run that through your little Misery Index, Hanoi Kerry.

    CHECKMATE
     
  20. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    Scooby Doo Can doo-doo, but Jimmy Carter is smarter.
     

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