So other races shouldn't be proud of who they are either? What's wrong with being comfortable in your own skin? Being proud of being white doesn't imply that I feel that I'm better than anyone else, I'm just happy with who I am. I think everyone should have pride in who and what race they are. It's only natural I think. I feel that people can be proud and tolerant at the same time. Unfortunately, there are many who do understand or practice tolerance. As for national pride, I am an American and honestly I am not proud of it right now. I have never in my life been more disgusted and ashamed of what our country has done and become. Bush is a disgrace as are most of the politicians in office. I hope we have drastic changes in the near future.
as i have edited your post above, i agree with you 100%, but i would like to ask you again, what does it mean to be proud of being white? i don't think we're too far off from one another's POV here, i am just trying to add a little nuance to this thread. i am white, i live in multicultural new york, and i have two blonde white sons and a third coming in august. my wife is white but foreign, from austria, so i think i have some perspective on this. also, i'm not picking on you at all, just thought you raised an interesting issue.
That is a good question and I can't really come up with a good answer. I guess I feel that it seems we, as white people, have to toe this politically correct line and I think it's ubsurd. That we have to be held to some sort of higher non-existant standard. The Tar-Baby thread is a perfect example. The word was used in it's correct context so where is the problem? I guess maybe it isn't that I am proud of being white but maybe more that I'm just as human as the next person and I do not apologize for who I am, just as you shouldn't apologize for who you are. It is difficult to explain exactly what I feel. I know it isn't racist but I also know that it isn't the crap that the media or our society has deemed "appropriate".
I would think... no. What is there about skin color to be proud of? It's not something that was earned. It's not an accomplishment. It's an accident of evolution and who your Mom chose to have sex with. Skin color is a completely arbitrary thing that should have no bearing on your identity. Unfortunately, it's become shorthand for "culture," as in "they're not like us" or "they're don't understand what we've been through." I know we've all heard "Black and Proud" and similar slogans, but if you look at it from a historical point of view instead of through skin colored glasses, what they are saying is "I'm proud of my family's history, I'm proud of the struggles we've been through, I'm proud of the things we've accomplished, and I'm proud that I'm taking my place at the table of American Democracy." Again, it's shorthand, but one of the reasons it's effective is because we remain, at some level, a racist society. Slavery ended 140 years ago. Brown was 50 years ago. The Civil Rights Act was 40 years ago. That's nothing in the historical timeline. It's absurd to think that in less than a generation attitudes that took centuries to build up will disappear. The best we can hope for is that each generation makes a little improvement. I'm not proud to be white. I am proud that my relatives have fought in every war from the Revolution to the first Gulf War, including both sides of the Civil War. I'm proud my folks have done a little bit through the generations to make this country great and I hope it's enough to balance the scales for those that acted in favor of their baser instincts. I'm proud that I was born where ideas like democracy and equality are valued and practiced. I'm proud that my country has produced people like Jefferson and Lincoln and MLK. I'm proud of the fact that until Bush v. Gore, this country had continuously expanded the concepts of Democracy to include more and more people. I'm proud that this country, in accord with many others across the globe, knocked the snot out of Facism in the 1940's. I'm proud of a lot of things about my heritage... just not my skin color... neither am I ashamed of my skin color... it absolutely does not matter to me... and I think it certainly shouldn't be something that influences who you think you are because it is primarily an incredibly lazy and insecure way to identify yourself and can lead to great abuses by those energetic and venal enough to exploit it.
My family emigrated (legally I think) from Wales back whenever. One family in one branch lost 6 or 7 daughters to cholera on the wagon train ride out west. If you look back far enough, every family has struggled and sacrificed and therefore has something to be proud of. Perhaps, though, we should just all attend our family reunions and forget about these ethnic celebrations.
What do whites as a race have to be proud of? There is no problem with white folks of Irish ancestory being proud of that. The same goes with people of English, Schottish, French, German, Lithuanian... etc. There are plenty of things all of these groups have done to warrant pride. But for the white race as a whole? I am not sure what they would be proud of. I do agree that political correctness holds back race relations, is harmful, and and awful waste of time.
I don't see your point about preferring to be in the majority? It doesn't matter to me either way which race is in the majority or minority. If I was forced to choose, I would say whites have had their chance as the majority with mixed results. I am fine with another race assuming the majority. I actually saw the video before I found it in print. My initial reaction was based off the video. I understand that he isn't trying to make this issue number 1. But even his occasionall attempt at humor in this, shows that the man doesn't believe all Americans are equal regardless of ethnicity. That is what it all comes down to. He feels the need to point out which ethnicity is in charge, and send out a plea to keep it that way. Either you believe Americans are equal, or you don't. Gibson clearly doesn't.
You don't get it, perhaps there wouldn't be common african-american holidays like Black History month, etc. if blacks hadn't been shipped here en-masse from West Africa years ago and pretty much forced to develop their own common African-American culture based on what was a very bad situation - in other words it's simply not possible for blacks to have holidays like St. Patrick's day or Columbus Day based on the peculiarity of the African American experience. Nobody knows whether their a Yoruba or Ibo or whatever. I don't understand why certain white people are concerned about having generic "white" celebrations. The "white" american experience/history is drastically different and far more heterogenous, and is largely embodied by holidays created for achievements or celebrations by whites such as Independence Day or Thanksgiving, etc. and by the ethnic holidays that Poles, Irish, Italians, etc celebrate along with them. The reason why there's not separate "white" days is because there's no need for them.
I think the thing we need to distinguish is between "race", "ethnicity" and "culture". Its true in the US these things get mixed up for instance "Black History Month" isn't a celebration of all "Black History" since African history isn't celebrated. Also at the sametime Asian / Oriental isn't something that people in Asia relate to as Chinese will never consider themselves as being largely same as Japanese or vice versa. Its only in the US with its legacy of racism that Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese and others will be lumped together. So to start speaking of "White pride" what is that? Is that being proud that Europeans invented racial categories to segregate and stratify people based upon outward appearences? Is it feeling that now that those other ethnicities who were lumped together because of their skin color are now turning that around as a badge of honor whites want to be able to claim their own empowerment even though they created the system?
Obviously you didn't even read my posts and just assumed what I was going to say by the first sentence. I do not want any extra "white" holidays or anything just for white people. I think that is stupid. Just as stupid as having an NAACP. If you had read all of my posts, I said that thegary had a great question in "what does it mean to be proud of being white?" I specifically said that I had no answer to that question so therefore obviously that isn't what I was going for. I think what it all boils down to is that I can't stand political correctness in it's many forms. Like I said before, I think it is patronizing and at many times forced and insincere.
Obviously you didn't read my post either then, cause it explains why it's silly for you to compare apples to oranges.
You attempt to treat "white" holidays, interest groups, etc. and black holidays, interest groups etc as if they're perfect analogues. They're not, for the reasons explained.
Show me where I mentioned holidays in any of my posts prior to you going off about slavery and holidays. I never mentioned it once. I never made any comparisons period. I did say that I DID NOT want an interest group for white people. That is the only reference that I made and that I thought it was silly for other races to have them as well. I feel that they continue to keep everyone apart. We should be focused on what is good for everyone, not specific races or people.
Thanks for posting that, rimrocker I have no idea how you can make this statement that American white people should make more babies without saying that you want more white people in America. His justification is, "I'm fine with brown people, but we don't want hispanics making the majority of our babies. That's all I'm saying. White people need to make more babies." This explanation of his racial equity is...lacking. Saying he'd rather live with Christian brown people than Muslim brown people doesn't improve his image as racially or culturally tolerant.
Well you're bemoaning your lack of ability to express white pride, whether it be genuine or to illutstrate a point, and then you go on to compare the two, just like you do below: It's not silly if you understand the context. I think what's silly is wanting to suppresss everything in favor of some kind of bland collectivism. Talk about political correctness.... "White pride" and "black pride" are simply not interchangeable concepts with different pigments.
I was not whining about a lack of white pride and you would have seen that had you read my later post. Here is a refresher for you. You are just hung up on the fact that I am all about "white pride" now and have these blinders on to anything other than that. I guess not being in favor of race oriented organizations means that I am in favor of a "bland collectivism". Do you always jump to ridiculous conclusions like that?
Blah, you can keep acting huffy and making big bold quotes for dramatic effect, cause two can play at that game "here's a refresher for you" on your advocacy of white pride: or you can hear what I'm saying, which has been remarkably consistent and which you have yet to address, once, despite several hyperactive posts: Black pride and white pride are not interchangeable as concepts- that's why it's silly to say, as you have implied, that the lack or presence of one should have something to do with the lack or presence of the other.
