Joel Osteen/Lakewood: Good for Christianity or Not?

I am not an expert but any of the basic translations- the ones that start with Genesis have 39 old testament books, and 27 New Testament books Matthew- Rev.

Try-
King James Translation
New King James Translation
NIV Translation
NASB Translation
RSV Translation

etc.

There are quite a few translations. Read several and compare.

You will find the message if you look for it.

 

I had not heard that before.

I respect your testimony and if it is accurate...

preacher weeping

 

I think I did find it. And it's not exactly the same as yours, and infact we have major differences. My perception of god is unique to me, as I am unique (but similar to others), and it is always changing as I always change.

 

agreed

God loves you.

How much of the Bible have you read and what is your perception.

I didn't realize you studied the Bible. I sincerely have interest in what you have found in the Bible.

Thanks

 

I'm not really going to comment on his content right now... I haven't watched enough of his actual sermons to feel right making too many comments...

BUT I can say that I would feel uneasy having a church of that size as my regular church...

For myself personally, I'd prefer a church where I can know the pastor etc personally.. that's just me though.. I'm sure some prefer a church of that size..

 

Conicidentally enough our new Priest (young guy around 31) spoke of Joel Osteen in one of his sermons recently. The Priest's point was the exact one that you and others have made.

 

Well........it's been a long while since I have studied the Bible. The only real studying I did was at a Catholic High School I attended. They were great classes taught by a Franciscan Monk. Plus I attended "bible school" and went (parentally forced) to Mass every week for 18 years.

But I was never satisfied with the common idea of the afterlife, and I always figured the message of Jesus was something more than "live right and go to heaven when you die". Life was too amazing to me to think otherwise. And I was never comfortable as thinking as god as an "it", "over there". I thought things were bigger than our attempts to understand. I always knew my perceptions of God were a sham, I never really trusted them. I was looking for something more transcendental and alive, something beyond notions and ideas.

Then I came across Buddhism, it blew mind, and it has brought to me a greater understanding of the message of Jesus.

I think if you are trapped in ideas of Jesus and god, you are not able to recognize and experience the kingdom of god that right next to you (a la Thomas). In the Bible, Jesus shows that the Kingdom of god is available here and now. The rite Eucharistic that Jesus taught encourages us to be fully aware so that we can touch the the ultimate reality in us and around us. There is of course much more (compassion, empathy etc.) but this is what means the most to me right now.

 

Wow, Chance, does this guy really say these things from the pulpit? How is he different from an old time huckster, selling bottles of elixer, claiming it'll cure a host of unrelated illnesses because he says so. Just use it regularly!

What nonsense. That enough people have "bought into" this "message" to construct this giant church on the bones of the Summit is more a comment on the depths to which our society has sunk, then on any "ministry" built upon the legacy of Jesus Christ. Of course, what do I know? I'm an agnostic, who reads a lot.



"Lord, what fools these mortals be!

William Shakespeare... "A Midsummer Night's Dream", Act 2 scene 2




Keep D&D Civil!!

 

Thanks

 

I don't know enough about him to say anything one way or the other. I could only wish he was another Norman Vincent Peale. We could use one. He was a great example and his message was one of extreme faith.

If Olsteen is talking about primarily about maeterial gains from faith and having a great attitude and primarily using the lord in an effort to gain material things, then I believe he is way off base.

 

Lakewood is superficial. That is why it is so popular.

I don't think it does anything good for Christianity. Unless you think superficial Christianity is good. I am a purist, though, so I think it is dumb.

I also don't think he is a very good speaker. Just my personal opinion, but I find his style, rhythm, enunciation, and expression to be annoying.

If you want to see a good evengelical-style preacher in Houston go see Duane Brooks at Tallowood Baptist. He is really strong.

 

I suppose because he is high profile Joel Osteen is subject to higher scrutiny and certainly must come under more criticism than someone like me in a small church with no advertising and media exposure (thank God).

I don't think the message is good for Christianity. (To answer the question)

But I don't have any desire to make it personal. I respect what Joel Osteen is trying to do, I am concerned over the eternal results.

We are not to be judgmental, especially when it is criticism based upon limited information.

I think any ministry, message, and method should be judged whether it be of God or not.

Like it has been stated not everything with 'Christian' on it is Biblical. And if it does not conform to the teaching of the Bible it is not Christian.

Chance's points are good ones. Read the Bible for yourself. I have never met anyone who could not find the message and truth of scripture that sought the truth with a humble and honest heart.

One reason there are so many denominations is because different groups place greater emphasis on different truths. Another reason is because man has messed up Christianity through pride (among other things). Another reason is because there are false Christians. Another reason is because people differ on the interpretation of scripture.

It doesn't matter how many different sects or denominations there are when you realize the message is personal.

The Bible says the Holy Spirit helps us understand the truth.

So if you have the help of the Holy Spirit you can read the Bible and understand the message personally.

That is what's important. Finding a group of believers to enjoy fellowship with and community is important, but it is secondary to hearing and believing the right message.

We have a simple discipleship plan in our church.

Read the Bible and do what it says.

 

Here's one big reason against organized religion:

Poll Finds Regular Worshipers More Supportive Of War In Iraq

http://www.nbc17.com/military/4884735/detail.html

POSTED: 8:57 am EDT August 23, 2005
UPDATED: 9:51 am EDT August 23, 2005

The Associated Press

NEW YORK -- A new poll finds that the more often Americans go to church, the more supportive they are of U.S. foreign policy, including the war in Iraq.

The poll by Public Agenda finds that people who frequently attend worship services are far more likely to support the war on terror and believe that the United States is achieving its objectives in Iraq.

Americans who never attend worship services are much more likely to believe that the war is damaging international relations and is costing too much in money and casualties.

Public Agenda's Michael Remaley said the poll reflects evangelical Christians' greater tendency to view the world in terms of good and evil, and their support for President George W. Bush.

 

you're right...i should stop going to church now. i should stop worshipping God in a community.

give me a break.

 

Does god mind if you worship him at you own home?

 

no, I can't do it there, either...it might make me vote Republican.

in all seriousness...how is this remotely relevant to the thread topic?

 

Did you not?

Well, I don't really care ... The next war mongering US President could well be a Democrat. I can guarantee you he'll be subject to daily bombardment if the war is not justified.

 

i didn't in 92....i don't in every mid-term election...i won't this next time, in all likelihood.

people at my church come from all political stripes. among my closest friends is the youth pastor at my church is fairly independent, but definitely leans democrat. in my experience, you simply can't pigeon-hole people like that.

the following organizations came out against the war in Iraq: the Methodist Church, Presbyterian Church (USA), the Lutheran Church, the Vatican, the National Council of Churches of Christ (USA). That's just off the top of my head.