[Joe Klein] McCain has lost all honor

I had a lot of respect for McCain pre Iraq War--even if I disagreed with at least half of his votes. If there was one "Strait Talking" "Maverick" with the national standing to change the national dialogue to keep us from getting in that war, it would have been him (the only other guy that maybe could have done it was Colin Powell). McCain's 2004 Rep convention speech just furthered exposed him. He has shown his true colors a good while now. The dude is out to win the Presidency at all costs.

 

Illinios Sex Ed Bill

Here is the bill, read for yourself and interpret. To me, Obama defense of his vote can be seen as accurate based on the wording of this bill but it is fairly obvious to see that it also opens up the entirety of sex education, starting at Kindergarten. It does state "age appropriate" and "developmentally appropriate" but does not further define appropriateness. To be honest, I think you can argue this one each way.

Obama's reason for voting may be well intended but it does not mean that there might not be unforeseen consequences. Also, based on the legislation McCain is not lying. So I consider it a draw.

 

people will finally open their eyes now, but still i think everyone woke up after palin insulted community organizers, i do some community service stuff and people give up their time to do the community better good than sitting in an office in washington

 

I'm pretty sure the bill wouldn't mean talking to kindergartners about condoms . Like you said, "age apprpriate"

Mccain will just start rambling on about the surge or how he was a POW, thats all he ever does to cover something up

 

I do community volunteering too but it doesn't qualify me to run for President. The reason for the bash is that there is no definition to what he actually did and it is his only experience outside of running for office.

 

Are you pretty sure. Your sureness doesn't define what "age appropriate" actually means. This bill has holes in it and that is why our government should not be deciding what is age appropriate or not. If a child walks up to a teacher and asks where babies come from, who decides what should be said or not said?

Again, McCains ad does not lie, it is simply his interpretation of a "Possibly" dangerous bill.

 

OK, name ONE THING Obama's campaign did that comes close to 'anything goes'??????????

Are you referring to Palin's daughter being pregnant? What was Obama's response to it? Or was it just the media going nuts and running with it?

Why are people lumping everyone together into one label nowadays? All media and democrats including Obama are left leaning you are saying? Just name me one thing the campaign did to be labled 'anything goes'. This ad has McCain's stamp of approval at the very end of it.

 

I think common sense speaks for itself, to answer you question.

Secondly don't try to cover up what Palin said, the condescending manner she said it in spoke volumes.

 

No, it really isn't that low.

First off, calm down. I was talking about posters on this bbs, not the Obama campaign.

 

Exactly, Obama had run a very nice campaign before last week, but the mccain ads such as the Paris Hilton one are too much for one to ignore.



Do you think Palin's daughter would have been Pregnant if she had gotten better sex education?

 

The Paris Hilton ad wasn't like this at all, and certainly wasn't objectionable on grounds of cynicism.

Entirely possible and completely silly response on your part.

 

The most comical thing about this smear, sex ed, is that his running mate's daughter is sitting at home pregnant.

 

I never understand this. He also worked in legal firms and as a law professor. It's not just the community organizing when he was very young.

But the main point: McCain's non-political experience? He was a soldier four decades ago, but not a commanding officer. That's nice, but I don't see it as presidential. Eisenhower, another veteran, commanded thousands upon thousands of soldiers before running for president. Then McCain was an assistant to a beer distributor (his 2nd wife's dad). Um, okay. So Obama's pre-political experience is worse exactly how?

And Palin? Sports anchor? Great. That's a lot better than working in a community on education and job training, right? Because the president is basically a sports anchor, except for the 70 hours per week of non-sports related meetings.

 

Are you serious? You think extrapolating from a recorded legislative vote in a manner that could technically be true but functionally misleading is the same thing as creating an outright lie (technically and functionally) to play on the racist sentiment in a particular region?

It isn't.

Look, take this example.

Funding for Iraq bill comes up - included is money for troop body armor. Kerry votes against the whole bill because he prefers another version, or some revisions. Bush runs ads saying Kerry voted against troops getting body armor. True? Yes, technically it is true. Functionally though it is misleading.

 

Serious question: does the McCain camp oppose that piece of legislation?

Big issue one: sexual predators and kids knowing how to keep themselves out of harm's way.

Big issue two: sex education in a nation with an embarrassingly high teen pregnancy rate AND a non-industrialized-nation type of STD rate among teens.

I hope if voters care about this issue they ask what McCain/Palin's ad says about this. We know Palin is a big proponent of the statistically failed policy that is "abstinence only."

Good vote for Obama there. We have to address teen pregnancy in the US, especially those of us who want to see dramatic reductions in the number of US abortions.

 

Hayes little argument about how it could "technically be true" is classic Hayes - take a logical inch and expand it to a mile, cling mightily to that inch like a World War I trench commander - too bad that it couldn't "technically be true" as the express language restricts it to "age appropriate" instruction.

 

I am not trying to cover up anything, the comment was supposed to be condescending and I agree with the condescension. I don't want someone who's only experience in "real life" is as a community organizer and he self admittedly said he didn't accomplish much in the three years.