I'd like to know WWR's stance on citizen involvement in police activity period. You always here the "don't try to help the police", "let the trained professionals handle it", "keep out of police business, it's dangerous" yadayda. But I guess that's just politically correct. In reality, you can shoot your gun at anybody - the police appreciate it. Heck, provided they were ex-criminals, and that you had probable cause to suspect them of crime, it's A-ok*! No matter where you are at the time. Awesome. I swear this one dude constantly gets on my bus for free by faking the "q-card swipe" and hoping the bus driver is not paying attention. I'm gonna shoot that mutha! EDIT: Before WWR gets all pissed - I know this is a stupid exaggeration. The point is that I could not arrest the guy and fine him 30 bucks for stealing from METRO just as much as I am not supposed to willy-nilly shoot people in front of my house. *Helps if they're minorities, and you're white.
I will leave you with some of the penal code, and yes, I am a full time sworn peace officer in the State of Texas. You might read the section of the penal code I posted and you might still think what Joe did was illegal. In my opinion, it was illegal what Joe Horn did per the penal code. But besides the black and white of the law, you've got to (in my humble opinion) look at the totality of the circumstances. None of us know everything that went on that day. Do the means justify the end? In my opinion they do. Joe acted in good faith by protecting a third person's property. What he did was wrong in the eyes of the law. But I feel the outcome of this was accurate and I hope it sends a message to all criminals.
So all the stuff you spewed in this thread: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=150125 about laws, obeying them and what not go out the door now huh?
I'd approve of force being used to stop them from getting away. You have that right. But my instructions to someone in Joe's situation: Get a license plate number. Property isn't worth losing your life over. You don't know if the bad guy has a gun or not. You don't know his mental state. You don't know anything about them. You don't even know if they're 16 years old or not. If time permits you could follow them in your car by keeping a safe distance (but I wouldn't necessarily recommend this). You have the RIGHT to stop someone from taking your property though.
Evidently the grand jury thinks that obeying them went out the door. I have never condoned breaking the law. I admitted I think what Joe did was illegal. But obviously, the grand jury and myself think alike.
im glad horn got cleared. i believe he was innocent under the law. its unfortunate 2 people are dead. i dont think horn is getting off scott free though. im sure he'll have to get some counseling to deal w/ the fact that he killed 2 people. he'll be replaying everything in his dreams until the day he passes. also, his lawyer must have made a nice chunk of change.
You know he is going to get sued. The wife of the dead guy won't have to find another burglar to support her. She'll have plenty of money.
Except that what you state below show's why its a bad idea to use force in such a situation. No matter what you think of the criminals is it worth it for a good samaritan to put his own life at risk just to protect another's property? Consider if these robbers had been armed and they got the drop on Joe Horn and killed him? Or even worse consider that if Joe Horn in his zeal to get the criminals injured somebody else. Remember the officer on the scene feared for his own safety from Joe Horn. I don't know what sort of training you're had as a police officer but the ones that I've talked to strongly discourage people from getting involved in a crime in progress unless someone's life is in danger. That wasn't the case in this situation and Joe Horn had already done his civic duty by calling the police and describing the situation. As I said I don't know what sort of training you've had as an officer but it is very dangerous suggestion for a civillian who isn't trained to attempt to tail criminals. As for a right that may be so under Texas law but that is one with that has quite a bit of risk involved. IMO this ruling sets a bad precedent and the Texas law is reckless.
You even quoted me on it: I said for someone Joe's situation you'd need to get a license plate number. Don't approach a crime in progress. Someone armed (off duty) such as myself I would not have a problem with following them. I would not approach them unarmed though. For the average citizen, especially elderly such as Joe Horn, you need to stay away, call 911, get a good description and possibly a license plate. I would not recommend any thing more than that. You're trying to make me sound like a hypocrite. What I would do and what a civilian would do are two different things. I said I would approve of force being used. It's legal. I wouldn't recommend it though. What I recommend and what the law allows are two different things. Everyone should use good judgment.
Well, the grand jury didn't push the case forward. I'll have to take the word of a grand jury that had a set of actual evidence in front of them to make the decision. I guess it IS possible that the actual evidence of the case may have been more than what the media has covered. My wife sat on a jury a couple years ago that had a blurb about it on the news. She was shocked by the difference in the facts of the case as presented in court as by the "facts" presented by the media. It was obvious the media was trying to present one type of conclusion to the case, but the actual evidence and witesses to the case presented an entirely different conclusion. It made us pretty much more or less trust more of what shows up in a court room over what a media outlet presents.
