1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Joe Horn Round 2

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by danny317, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 1999
    Messages:
    34,143
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    This seems a bit racist to me.
     
  2. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    I'd like to know WWR's stance on citizen involvement in police activity period. You always here the "don't try to help the police", "let the trained professionals handle it", "keep out of police business, it's dangerous" yadayda.

    But I guess that's just politically correct. In reality, you can shoot your gun at anybody - the police appreciate it. Heck, provided they were ex-criminals, and that you had probable cause to suspect them of crime, it's A-ok*! No matter where you are at the time. Awesome. I swear this one dude constantly gets on my bus for free by faking the "q-card swipe" and hoping the bus driver is not paying attention. I'm gonna shoot that mutha!

    EDIT: Before WWR gets all pissed - I know this is a stupid exaggeration. The point is that I could not arrest the guy and fine him 30 bucks for stealing from METRO just as much as I am not supposed to willy-nilly shoot people in front of my house.

    *Helps if they're minorities, and you're white.
     
    #142 rhadamanthus, Jun 30, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2008
  3. WWR

    WWR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    0

    I will leave you with some of the penal code, and yes, I am a full time sworn peace officer in the State of Texas.


    You might read the section of the penal code I posted and you might still think what Joe did was illegal. In my opinion, it was illegal what Joe Horn did per the penal code. But besides the black and white of the law, you've got to (in my humble opinion) look at the totality of the circumstances. None of us know everything that went on that day. Do the means justify the end? In my opinion they do. Joe acted in good faith by protecting a third person's property. What he did was wrong in the eyes of the law. But I feel the outcome of this was accurate and I hope it sends a message to all criminals.
     
  4. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 1999
    Messages:
    34,143
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    So all the stuff you spewed in this thread:

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=150125

    about laws, obeying them and what not go out the door now huh?
     
  5. WWR

    WWR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd approve of force being used to stop them from getting away. You have that right.

    But my instructions to someone in Joe's situation:
    Get a license plate number. Property isn't worth losing your life over. You don't know if the bad guy has a gun or not. You don't know his mental state. You don't know anything about them. You don't even know if they're 16 years old or not.

    If time permits you could follow them in your car by keeping a safe distance (but I wouldn't necessarily recommend this). You have the RIGHT to stop someone from taking your property though.
     
  6. WWR

    WWR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    0
    Evidently the grand jury thinks that obeying them went out the door.


    I have never condoned breaking the law. I admitted I think what Joe did was illegal. But obviously, the grand jury and myself think alike.
     
  7. danny317

    danny317 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    2
    im glad horn got cleared. i believe he was innocent under the law.

    its unfortunate 2 people are dead. i dont think horn is getting off scott free though.

    im sure he'll have to get some counseling to deal w/ the fact that he killed 2 people. he'll be replaying everything in his dreams until the day he passes.

    also, his lawyer must have made a nice chunk of change.
     
  8. WWR

    WWR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    0

    You know he is going to get sued. The wife of the dead guy won't have to find another burglar to support her. She'll have plenty of money.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,297
    Likes Received:
    39,848
    Well,

    As I said earlier in this thread, glad justice was done.

    DD
     
  10. danny317

    danny317 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    2
    yeah i dont think that would fly either. especially since we're in tx.
     
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,748
    Trader_Jorge have you ever had your back to a bear ?
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,168
    Likes Received:
    48,335
    Except that what you state below show's why its a bad idea to use force in such a situation.

    No matter what you think of the criminals is it worth it for a good samaritan to put his own life at risk just to protect another's property? Consider if these robbers had been armed and they got the drop on Joe Horn and killed him? Or even worse consider that if Joe Horn in his zeal to get the criminals injured somebody else. Remember the officer on the scene feared for his own safety from Joe Horn.

    I don't know what sort of training you're had as a police officer but the ones that I've talked to strongly discourage people from getting involved in a crime in progress unless someone's life is in danger. That wasn't the case in this situation and Joe Horn had already done his civic duty by calling the police and describing the situation.

    As I said I don't know what sort of training you've had as an officer but it is very dangerous suggestion for a civillian who isn't trained to attempt to tail criminals. As for a right that may be so under Texas law but that is one with that has quite a bit of risk involved. IMO this ruling sets a bad precedent and the Texas law is reckless.
     
  13. updawg

    updawg Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,985
    Likes Received:
    166
    good analogy TJ :confused:
     
  14. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,622
    Likes Received:
    6,590
    Yes, many times.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 1999
    Messages:
    34,143
    Likes Received:
    1,038

    Did you feel threatened? Wuss. :p ;)
     
  16. WWR

    WWR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    0


    You even quoted me on it:

    I said for someone Joe's situation you'd need to get a license plate number. Don't approach a crime in progress. Someone armed (off duty) such as myself I would not have a problem with following them. I would not approach them unarmed though. For the average citizen, especially elderly such as Joe Horn, you need to stay away, call 911, get a good description and possibly a license plate. I would not recommend any thing more than that.

    You're trying to make me sound like a hypocrite. What I would do and what a civilian would do are two different things.
    I said I would approve of force being used. It's legal. I wouldn't recommend it though. What I recommend and what the law allows are two different things. Everyone should use good judgment.
     
  17. Uprising

    Uprising Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2000
    Messages:
    43,079
    Likes Received:
    6,611
    Glad to hear it, justice has been served.
     
  18. Achilleus

    Achilleus Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,313
    Likes Received:
    24



    [​IMG]
     
  19. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,110
    Likes Received:
    2,457
    Well, the grand jury didn't push the case forward. I'll have to take the word of a grand jury that had a set of actual evidence in front of them to make the decision.

    I guess it IS possible that the actual evidence of the case may have been more than what the media has covered.

    My wife sat on a jury a couple years ago that had a blurb about it on the news. She was shocked by the difference in the facts of the case as presented in court as by the "facts" presented by the media. It was obvious the media was trying to present one type of conclusion to the case, but the actual evidence and witesses to the case presented an entirely different conclusion.

    It made us pretty much more or less trust more of what shows up in a court room over what a media outlet presents.
     
  20. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 1999
    Messages:
    34,143
    Likes Received:
    1,038

    They're Scientologists? :confused:
     

Share This Page