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Jimmy Carter Bashes Bush

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Batman Jones, Sep 5, 2002.

  1. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    *******, this is good. Hits every single thing that is wrong, so wrong, about this administration. Makes me wish he would run in 2004.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38441-2002Sep4.html

    The Troubling New Face of America


    By Jimmy Carter
    Thursday, September 5, 2002; Page A31


    Fundamental changes are taking place in the historical policies of the United States with regard to human rights, our role in the community of nations and the Middle East peace process -- largely without definitive debates (except, at times, within the administration). Some new approaches have understandably evolved from quick and well-advised reactions by President Bush to the tragedy of Sept. 11, but others seem to be developing from a core group of conservatives who are trying to realize long-pent-up ambitions under the cover of the proclaimed war against terrorism.

    Formerly admired almost universally as the preeminent champion of human rights, our country has become the foremost target of respected international organizations concerned about these basic principles of democratic life. We have ignored or condoned abuses in nations that support our anti-terrorism effort, while detaining American citizens as "enemy combatants," incarcerating them secretly and indefinitely without their being charged with any crime or having the right to legal counsel. This policy has been condemned by the federal courts, but the Justice Department seems adamant, and the issue is still in doubt. Several hundred captured Taliban soldiers remain imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay under the same circumstances, with the defense secretary declaring that they would not be released even if they were someday tried and found to be innocent. These actions are similar to those of abusive regimes that historically have been condemned by American presidents.

    While the president has reserved judgment, the American people are inundated almost daily with claims from the vice president and other top officials that we face a devastating threat from Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and with pledges to remove Saddam Hussein from office, with or without support from any allies. As has been emphasized vigorously by foreign allies and by responsible leaders of former administrations and incumbent officeholders, there is no current danger to the United States from Baghdad. In the face of intense monitoring and overwhelming American military superiority, any belligerent move by Hussein against a neighbor, even the smallest nuclear test (necessary before weapons construction), a tangible threat to use a weapon of mass destruction, or sharing this technology with terrorist organizations would be suicidal. But it is quite possible that such weapons would be used against Israel or our forces in response to an American attack.

    We cannot ignore the development of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, but a unilateral war with Iraq is not the answer. There is an urgent need for U.N. action to force unrestricted inspections in Iraq. But perhaps deliberately so, this has become less likely as we alienate our necessary allies. Apparently disagreeing with the president and secretary of state, in fact, the vice president has now discounted this goal as a desirable option.

    We have thrown down counterproductive gauntlets to the rest of the world, disavowing U.S. commitments to laboriously negotiated international accords.

    Peremptory rejections of nuclear arms agreements, the biological weapons convention, environmental protection, anti-torture proposals, and punishment of war criminals have sometimes been combined with economic threats against those who might disagree with us. These unilateral acts and assertions increasingly isolate the United States from the very nations needed to join in combating terrorism.

    Tragically, our government is abandoning any sponsorship of substantive negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis. Our apparent policy is to support almost every Israeli action in the occupied territories and to condemn and isolate the Palestinians as blanket targets of our war on terrorism, while Israeli settlements expand and Palestinian enclaves shrink.

    There still seems to be a struggle within the administration over defining a comprehensible Middle East policy. The president's clear commitments to honor key U.N. resolutions and to support the establishment of a Palestinian state have been substantially negated by statements of the defense secretary that in his lifetime "there will be some sort of an entity that will be established" and his reference to the "so-called occupation." This indicates a radical departure from policies of every administration since 1967, always based on the withdrawal of Israel from occupied territories and a genuine peace between Israelis and their neighbors.

    Belligerent and divisive voices now seem to be dominant in Washington, but they do not yet reflect final decisions of the president, Congress or the courts. It is crucial that the historical and well-founded American commitments prevail: to peace, justice, human rights, the environment and international cooperation.
     
  2. 111chase111

    111chase111 Contributing Member

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    Carter wasn't the best president we ever had with regards to Middle Eastern Policy.

    After the Gulf War, Iraq was supposed to comply with certain things (i.e. weapons inspections). They simply didn't. The last administration (and/or the U.N. in general) should have used force WAY BACK THEN to get Iraq and Saddam to comply. Instead they just pretty much "let him be". They took the "he's not bothering anyone now, so let's not worry about it approach" because it let all the world leaders concentrate on things that make them seem "nice" as opposed to things that make them seem "mean" - like war! If Clinton and/or the U.N. and/or other European and Middle Eastern leaders had been right back in Saddam's face insisting that he let the arms inspectors in or pay some kind of price we wouldn't be in this mess now. But that wouldn’t be popular.

    People, in general, don't want war and will do a lot to avoid it (which is a good thing in general!). However, often people will go so far as to bury their heads in the sand as dictators build up and prepare for whatever they have up their sleeve. History is full of examples (look back to WWII). They rationalize this behavior by saying that they are "for human rights" or that "war is always the last solution". Unfortunately these dictators KNOW this and use it to their advantage.

    I've said this before...Bush is not necessarily planning on going to war with Iraq. He's making the threat. The threat HAS to be credible to get Saddam to comply, seriously, with anything. Something has to be done to prevent Iraq from developing/deploying WOMD. If we just use diplomacy (as we've been doing for the last 10 years), Saddam will take the opportunity to stall for time and keep developing his arsenal. He knows that the further away in time we get from his invasion of Kuwait, the less important it will seem and the harder it will be for countries to act against him militarily.

    I don’t want to go to war with Iraq. It just makes no sense. But, unless Saddam genually feels that his butt is on the line he's not going to listen to anyone.

    Bush has an incredibly hard job to do right now. He could just do nothing, make noises about the economy (which the President has about nil control over) and kiss babies and the butts of world leaders. That would make him “popular”. Instead he’s chosen to address an issue before it grows out of hand and everyone is raking him over the coals for it. Once again, I don’t think he’s actually going to go to war. He’s playing “bad cop” because force is the ONLY thing that Saddam can understand.

    And one more thing… All those people who criticized Bush senior for “not finishing the job” by taking out Saddam back in the Gulf War need to remember that Bush could not go into Baghdad because the coalition wouldn’t let him. In order to maintain international support, Bush had to stop. He was doing then what all the liberals and doves (and, apparently Jimmy Carter) wanted him to do! He was being “nice” and paying attention to the feelings of other world leaders. And what did “being nice” get us? It got us essentially the same problem 10 years later.
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    He makes some really great points. I am very discouraged because it looks like this country is turning into the very type of govt. that we've always stood against.

    Hopefully things will change fast.
     
  4. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Carter was on of the best if not the best IMO. Everyone though peace between Israel and Egypt was impossible. Carter hosted the two countries and helped broker a deal. Since then there has been a peace between the two countries. No other president since then as been able to broker any kind of lasting peace in the region. Under Reagan we even lost U.S. marines in the region, and still didn't get any peace. Carter was simply amazing in that area.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Funny how the hostages in Iran got released only DAYS before REAGAN took office.

    Carter was a decent man who could not delegate to save his butt, and was therefore a far less effective president then he should have been.

    DD
     
  6. Old School

    Old School Member

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    I love it when these ex Presidents talk smack and try to play armchair president.

    Go back to your peanut farm, Mr. Carter and stay there.


    os
     
  7. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    Funny how the director of the CIA was...

    (mmm... crazy conspiracies).
     
  8. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Contributing Member

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    The politics of this administration are irritating the entire world. If they think it is necessary to go to war with Iraq, then why are they picking every possible issue to piss off our potential allies?
     
  9. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Contributing Member

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    I don't think that Carter was a terribly good president, but he is definetly a great ex-president.
     
  10. BrianKagy

    BrianKagy Contributing Member

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    Hell, his whole term as President makes me wish he would run. The GOP would have a field day in 2004 if that's what the Democrats came up with.
     
  11. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    Carter was the worst president in the history of the United States.
     
  12. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    Says the high school kid. From St. John's. Sorry, man. You were asking for that. Where'd you hear he was the worst president? From your government teacher or your dad?

    Does anyone have anything at all to say about the arguments Carter posed, or is it just all about him being a peanut farmer? Cause that ****'s 20 years old and boring. And, frankly, the Bush is a dummy argument is a lot more compelling. But that's not what this thread was supposed to be about.

    Carter makes a very simple point. We used to embody moral authority, because we at least attempted to do the right thing -- all the time. Or at least we were careful to appear to. And now we are behaving like bullies. Simply because we can. Discuss.

    And please remember: it is not only our enemies who find us arrogant. Our allies do, too. THIS IS NEW. Read the article.

    When we are the ONLY superpower in the world, it behooves us to at least pretend we care about the rest of the world. Please read the ****ing article before posting in this thread. This is very serious stuff. Our last truly serious president took the time to write it. Take the time to read it and think before you post.
     
  13. Cohen

    Cohen Contributing Member

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    Carter is a wonderful humanitarian, but he sucked as a President. We are still recovering from his Iran debacle.
     
  14. Stevie Francis

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    man who hasn't bashed bush
     
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Whenever Carter pops up, I always picture that Simpson's episode where they had a statue of him with Marge's hair tacked on.
     
  16. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    Jesus, man. How the hell are we still "recovering" from his Iran "debacle?" How is it that whenever something bad happens on a Dem's watch, it's his PERSONAL fault? And yet, whenever things go right under a Dem, it's dumb luck. You have no credibility with me. The hostage crisis happened, it was awful and it was over. And the families will never be over it, as happens with tragedies, but you could say this about any administration. And Carter didn't CAUSE the Iran deal. Here's an example of something we actually had to work to recover from:

    It took us a long time to recover from the deficits of supply side economics, but we did it. Only to be plunged into recession as soon as the next Republican prez came around to give the entire surplus away to rich folk. We were attacked on 9/11 in large part because this country is hated by many other smaller countries who don't appreciate us asserting our influence wherever we feel like it. Our solution? Attack more Arab countries. Blow off the Israeli/Palestinian peace process. Blow off a stack of international treaties this country's already pledged to support, again in the interest of economic expedience. Carter understood the intricacies of these sorts of actions. So did Clinton. So did Bush, Sr. These guys do not get it. Some countries hate us. Some think maybe they ought to hate us, but aren't sure. This administration has made it plain to the rest of the world: We don't care about you. We're America. We have bigger guns. If you don't like it, we will kill you. HAVEN'T YOU HEARD??? WE WERE ATTACKED!!! A lot of these countries don't care about that. They've been getting attacked for years. Some of them have been getting attacked by us or by people we've armed. Carter understands this. Bush doesn't. Look forward to more terrorist attacks. We're not addressing the problem. We're making it worse.
     
    #16 Batman Jones, Sep 6, 2002
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2002
  17. Dreamshake

    Dreamshake Contributing Member

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    What is completely shocking to me is the approval rating Mr Bush garners right now.

    I could go on and on and on as to why I consider this administration as the absolute worst of my lifetime, but that would take literal days and more server space than is available. Did I want Gore to win...yep sure did, but once a president takes office, I dont want him to fail based on his party affiliation. I genuinely want him to succeed. But it seems every few weeks I find myself more and more astonished at this administrations moves.

    Honest to God, this isnt about Republicans and Democrats. Anyone who sits back and just evaluates Georges administration, from top to bottom, has to see that it just is terrible. Not that they all are though.


    Now guys, argue with me if you will, but please please dont make this a democrat vs republican issue.
     
  18. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    Batman--

    You REALLY would want Carter back??? Do you perchance remember long gas lines and stagflation???
     
  19. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Contributing Member

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    Sorry to stray from the topic Batman but is it necessary to start your post with such an offensive cuss word?
     
  20. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    wow!! it's official...i think you're a really nice guy...we just REALLY see things differently!!! maybe we should avoid middle east politics and talk about something else, Franchise! :) how bout them Texans?? :)
     

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