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Jim Webb in the WSJ-Class Struggle

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    I'll let you be the guy who explains to the small business owner that him not making payroll will lead to a higher future GDP for our nation. Good luck with that.
     
  2. insane man

    insane man Member

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    if you cared about the small business owner you'd fix our healthcare fiasco.
     
  3. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    Yup, still no one has been able to come up with one single example of the tax loopholes he's talked about.

    So yeah, the whole article is nothing more than dog poo.
     
  4. Major

    Major Member

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    I am a small business owner (20 employees). I explained it to myself very well. I know you could care less about people, but I'm pretty happy knowing I pay wages that at least give people an opportunity to live a life and have a future.
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

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    He's not talking about individual loopholes - just the system as a whole. The idea behind a progressive tax is that the wealthy pay a higher percentage of their income. But due to all the different rates and limits on taxes and hidden taxes, the rich don't do so. Here are a few examples:

    1. Mortgage interest deduction - this benefits the wealthy more than the poor. For starters, the poor don't own homes nearly as much. Second, the interest has to be above the standard deduction to provide any real benefit (unless you have a lot of other base deductions), which it will not be for a meek homeowner with a small home, so they get little to no benefit.

    2. Social Security taxes are paid only up to $90,000. It's a 7% or 14% tax depending on how you look at (in true economic effect, its 14%, but you only see 7% directly out of your wages). So while someone making $80,000 a year might be in a 25% tax bracket, they actually pay 39%. Someone making $5 million a year won't have to pay SS taxes on most of their wages, so they may peak out at 30 or 33% (I don't know what actual tax rates are offhand).

    3. Capital gains tax rate caps. The very wealthy generally don't make most of their income in wages - much of it is through stocks and other investments. So they pay a much lower rate for a huge portion of their income. The exception tends to be small business owners who do pay the higher tax rates since they have actual direct business or wage income, depending on how the company is set up.

    I don't know if these are the specific things he's talking about, but those are examples of ways that the tax code benefits the rich. They aren't intentional loopholes, and they can be used by anyone, but the way they are setup, they benefit the wealthy far more than the middle class.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    By the way, do you have a problem explaining to small businesses that are worried about surviving that its better to outsource their jobs to another country because it be better for the country in the long-term? Good luck with that one.
     
  7. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    In a global marketplace, the eventual outcome should be that all of the countries have the same economic conditions. That means that the wages in SE Asia and Mexico are going to go up, and the wages in the US are going to go down. I see us all ending up somewhere in the middle, though closer to the SE Asia end than ours.
     
  8. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    You have NO clue what you are talking about.

    A loophole is a way to to circumvent the law, what you are describing not circumventing the law.

    Since when is mortgage interest only benefits the top 1%? Most middle class Americans own houses are not top 1% earners. You know that interest payment will be used as part of itemized deduction for tax returns right? and with all the deduction adding up, almost all middle classe earners who has a house will use itemized deduction instead of the standard deduction. You also know that there is a upper cap how much you can deduct for mortgage interest? You also know there is a thing called AMT right?

    The current tax system is progressive, I paid over 40% of my income last year in taxes, i think that's pretty fair, of course you'd want me pay 70% or 80%.

    So I ask you again, can you provide a REAL example of a tax loophole for the top 1%?
     
  9. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    bwa ha ha ha ha ha

    That's not a small business, that little rinky dink website is more like a science fair project. Are you still running it out of that dump on the Drag across from Dobie? Your small business obviously isn't generating enough profits for you to DONATE to this website. That's funny.

    So you are telling me that you will gladly take less in profit in hopes of bolstering our nation's middle class in the future? Congratulations Sir, you no longer fall into the ranks of a rational economic participant.
     
  10. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    Why is tj squealing like a stuck pig, smearing a highly decorated combat veteran, and generally peeing himself? Because it galls him that someone earning the minimum wage might make a dollar or two more an hour.

    Pathetic.
     
  11. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    And yet median family income is dropping, hours worked are rising, and healthcare is becoming more expensive and thus less available.

    Just like Webb said, the rich are doing great while the rest of us are seeing our real wages falling.
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    The "crock" here is you comparing raising the minimum wage to the central planning structure of the USSR.
     
  13. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Again, I will offer you the course in reading comprehension that you desperately seem to need.

    Obviously not or the WSJ would not have published his article. Apparently, you are saying that the editorial board of the WSJ is devoid of "any semblance of business knowledge," eh?
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    [Off-topic]andy -- i was at the game last night with Jeff, and he pointed you out to me on the screen about 1000 times! :) you should be commended for your spirit at those games! [/Off-topic]
     
  15. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Look at the last posts on the first page, there was a perfect example.
     
  16. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    And you claim it is the Democrats who are elitists?

    PWNED
     
  17. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Since the prograssive income tax was introduced, the rich have seen their tax rates lowered by 66% while the middle and lower classes have seen no net reduction in their tax rates.

    Coincidentally, over that time we have seen our school system go from #1 in the world by far to barely being in the top ten, our national infrastructure deteriorating, and a return to earnings divisions the likes of which we haven't seen since Standard Oil and the like.

    I am actually not worried about YOUR tax rate, it seems to me that yours is pretty fair. I am more concerned about the Hilton/Gates/Buffett level rich who do not pay nearly the 40% that you do.
     
  18. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Very short-term trend. In any significant timespan, Mr. and Mrs. Median are much better off.

    link
     
  19. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    And yet they pay a higher percentage of total taxes paid than any other time in history.
     
  20. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    I am so happy that Sexxy Texxy returned as his alter ego Trader_Jorge.

    I missed seeing the idiot get nailed on a daily basis around here.

    Jorge obviously doesn't care for his own people. So sad.
     

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