It's been weeks, if not months, since I've logged in or posted. All I care about is that I have been having crap days as long as I can remember, and this Rockets news is something to distract me. I've been on the Jimmy Jackson bandwagon since the Rox were eliminated from the final playoff spot last year (kinda reminds me of the Astros this year). I'm now pleased with the content of our roster. Personally, I see this team being shaped around Yao more and more and in the vision of Gundy. Hopefully, the trade exception will probably facilitate further shaping. Perimeter shooting was one of our true weaknesses last year. Pike and Jackson give us two very competent, high percentage 3 pt shooters, and they can be on the floor at the same time. I was shocked to see Jackson's excellent percentage from the perimeter. Consistency on defense and toughness were another problem. Adding A. Griffin and Jackson will improve upon the overall defense and toughness. Posey always did a good job, but we no longer have to put up with Rice's pathetic defensive minutes. I'm not sure if we gave away Rice's expiring contract too cheaply. I think it was unlikely that we would use it to make a significant trade that would take us over the cap. Likewise, I'm doubtful that we will use the trade exception. That said, if we package the exception and Mobley or Cato for a starting caliber PF, we are golden. Except for the logo, I'm very excited about the Rockets next year.
I'm staying out of the "Les is or isn't cheap argument", but I have to add: Not only that, some of Rice's salary did not have to be paid by the Rockets. I don't remember the details of that, but I knew we had salary relief but not salary cap relief. Les was getting Rice at half price, at least for one year it was.
I feel you on that one dsnow23. I still have a few questions I was hoping some of you could share some insight on: 1) How long is Jackson's deal for, and if it is only for one season, would this pickup still be considered "valuable?" 2) In all honesty, if another trade was on the horizon, who would we have to trade (I would prefer Cato and Griffin as opposed to Mobley and any of those two) and what would be a reasonable target (position and player) for the Rockets to trade for? 3) If we trade Cato, is Amechi a servicable backup to Yao? 4) If Mobley is included in a near future move, is it feasible that the Rox are targeting a true point guard in anticipation of Francis moving to the 2? 5) Would you be satisfied with a line-up like this: Francis / Norris Jackson / Piatowski / Hawkins? Griffin / Nachbar (Artest?) PF from Trade (SAR, O'Neal, Wallace, A. Walker, K-Mart?) / Taylor / Badiane Yao / Amechi I haven't had a lot of time to think about this trade. In my opinion, it is not what you'd call a "sexy" transaction. I always liked the idea of acquiring young, big, and talented prospects through trades and building a talented team through years picking in the lottery but the borderline fact remains that veteran players are more valuable than that "P-word" (potential). A good mix of super young talent and veteran role-players seems like a formula that has worked over the years, and the Rockets really seem to be fitting THAT mold these days. They have a balance of young guys in Francis, Yao, Mobley, Nachbar, and EG and older vets like A. Griffin, Pike, and Jackson who can sort of serve as glue for this team by setting positive examples for the younger players and teach them how to play in the NBA. I distinctly remember people craving more role players for this team, a while back. Well, you quite possibly have gotten your wish this off season. Maybe this is just what the doctor ordered for our Rox.
Okay cool that we traded Rice, but did Utah really have to give us some crap. Could we not have one of their stars...Oh wait, they all retired!!! But dog on it we wanted someone else and they should of gave us some first rounders.
This is one of the only times I haven't agreed with MacBeth. We're now vastly improved at small forward. Jim Jackson is a good shooter, a good defender and a clutch veteran who doesn't choke in the 4th quarter. He's a little short for the 3 but he makes up for that by being so strong. He's a proven scorer and defender. He seems to have matured as he's aged. I heard no complaints of him last year by the Kings. A career 15 point a game scorer as our fourth or fifth option? Not too shabby. And we got him for 1.5 million. that's a steal. I like having him at small forward better than Posey to be honest. I liked Posey, but I think Jacksons shooting and veteran leadership is a better fit for us. as to giving up a 1st round draft pick- maybe it can be argued more could have been gotten for a 1st round pick but I really don't think so. the 6.5 million trade exception could be fantastic for us (if used well) and while Amaechi is no stud, he certainly beats the hell out of Jason Collier. He's at least had some respectable performances in his career. And most importantly, we don't need any more youth. Our team is young enough as is. I don't mind getting rid of 1st round picks at all at this point. Especially considering how we seldomly seem to draft well in the first round. Also, few teams in the league have back up centers any better than Amaechi (because few teams even have decent starting centers, much less back ups) so I agree with those who suggest this may free us up to move Cato. Cato + a 6.5 mil expcetion and maybe another player sounds very promising to me. All in all, this offseason we've: Possibly improved at starting small forward. (jim jackson vs james posey) Possibly improved at back up small forward. (adrian griffins steady defense is more appealing to me than glen rice's streaky shooting) Definitely improved at back up shooting guard. (pike should be a great fit for this team) Definitely improved our third string center (ok, big deal. i know. heh) Gained a 6.5 million dollar exception Lost James Posey (who got too much money elsewhere) Lost Glen Rice (no defense, streaky shooting and bad health) Lost a first round pick (and we're already one of the youngest teams in the league) I think we're a deeper team this year. I like that we've added veterans and I think the veterans we've added should really help us with our habit of choking in the 4th quarter. I'm very pleased with these moves and I'm very pleased with what I've been hearing from JVG. I'm excited. and Pippendagimp- are you seriously arguing that giving up Shandon Anderson for Glen Rice hurt our team? That guy was a scrub.
Well, I'm all over the place here. I agree with MacBeth and Crash that we could have gotten Jackson anyway. I agree with FranchiseBlade that this was a deal about getting the 'W's as soon as possible. I'm not bothered by the 1st round pick, but I am upset that we've received too little for the potential value Rice's contract might have for some teams by midseason. I like Jim Jackson's game, however.
look, the bottom line is that Les would not have ok'd spending even the exception to get Jackson without cutting costs somewhere else (i.e. backing away from the luxury tax threshold). so, while the team could have signed JJ with the exception before, they were financially unable to do so until they dumped some salary. these two moves are linked, no matter what you may say about the exception.
LeMarc- Utah might not even keep Rice. Their two best players are small forwards. They just wanted the first round pick and to throw some salary on the roster so that they aren't penalized for being too far under the cap. They are going to be the worst team in the league this year so their 1st round draft pick will probably be a top 5. Why would they possibly give us their ultra valuable top five 1st round pick for Rice (who they don't need) and our first pick that will probably fall somewhere between 15 and 20? Don't you think that's being just a tad bit unreasonable?
we could have gotten jackson anyway, but we didn't because the rule was set to not spend into the luxury tax. So, NO, we couldn't sign jackson. One day we have Rice's 9 mil salary and some non-lottery draft picks. the next we have Jackson, Ameechi, + 6.5 mil "potential star" and a non-lottery draft pick. I am for it, obviously. We need a real POWER forward to complete our starting five, so my hope would be that they work toward filling that need with the exception.
I think I smell a trade in the works, though camp hasn't been long enough to get a true evaluation. Perhaps the possiblity for Shareef Abdur-Rahim for Griffin/(cat or another person); Maybe even a player like ratliff at the four if healthy. Though doubtful due to depth needs, I think a trade is a high possiblity to find players better for the van gundy system.....or Les is truly "triming the fat"(Rice Literally<joke>) off the to make the potiental luxury Barrier. Van Gundy is a man who wants control of his players and wants veterans not youth. Ming is enough youth as is francis's attitude & on court maturity. I don't think Griffin is what van gundy needs right now, unless he had a break out summer to be our true PF. I haven't heard a thing. THINK BIG!
This trade is a bad deal for the Rockets. Why would the Rockets give up the expiring contract and handcuff themselves for more years? Something else has to happen but I doubt it. We are too close to the start of the season. Maybe we are setting ourselves up for a midseason trade. I DON'T LIKE IT!
One more thing... How come we didn't break this news? Did we lose all of our contacts in the organization?
Since we'd be bordering on lux tax land, the 2 other slots would have been minimum types, perhaps keeping Juaquin or Tito around or Wilks coming into camp with a safer roster spot. You get the same benefits of letting Rice's contract elapse as you do for trading him now for mostly a trade exception. The exception can do everything Rice can do, plus be split up, and can be used into next offseason, unlike Rice. We lost ~2.5 mill of that space for next year by taking on Amaechi, but that's doubtful to affect our standing, and as I mentioned before, there's the possibility of him opting out (he has a player opt after this season). Jackson was quite the cog in the Kings juggernaut bench last year. Even more importantly, he showed up in games 6 and 7 of the playoffs-16 pts, 12 rebs in game 6, 24 points on 10-12 shooting, 5 rebs in game 7. Jackson's curve of decline has not been nearly the rate of Rice's. I do agree that the trade exception is the key. If we truly don't use it, then this trade is highly questionable. But, we have the next 365 days to use it- and it will be nearly impossible for us to resist using at least part of a 6.5 mill trade exception; has anyone ever had a bigger one? Think of it like the draft pick; we won't see the fruits of it until next summer, but why would you judge the trade poorly because of the draft pick situation without knowing what we're going to do with our trade exception? Also, re: Rice salary relief. I can guarantee you it wasn't even half of one season. Why? You can't give more than 3 million in cash considerations in a deal. Terms of that were never released, but I'd guess it wasn't even 3 mill in the cash considerations. We still paid Rice more the past 2 years than we would have paid Shandon.
overall i am quite happy with the situation. i think we are a better team than last year. rice was good but his best years were far past him and he hardly played much the past 2 seasons due to injuries. i trust JVG. i dont see why everyone wants the "big names" to come here in terms of trade and FAs. its a team game and everyone needs their roles i think JVG/CD/LES has done a great job in getting the role players to compliment Francis and Yao. All in all this season is gonna rock and people will FINALLY stop calling phoenyix as the team of the future
JJ is a great pickup for the Rox, because he is a guy who can score, is a willing defender and can either come off the bench effectively or be a legit starter at the swingman position. I'm glad they got JJ and I think they need that kind of consumate pro on the roster.
So, let me get this straight, you would rather pay Rice 9 mil for spot duty than pay Amechi AND Jackson 3.75 combined for probably more productivity?
This deal has nothing to do with Mobley, why would we get rid of Mobley when we can have a power punch of Cat, Jackson, Stevie an Yao? That's even better then Steven Jackson in the mix. This is an outstanding deal in my eye. We don't need anymore first round picks, it's time to win now. This team is young enough, we need veterans, we need pieces of the puzzle. In my eyes, this deal makes us clearly better then the Suns an Portland and we can hang with some of the big guns. Jackson is a solid scorer and defender, and great 3rd or 4th option. I don't know why people are hellbent on trading Mobley, even to the point of saying the trade exemption would help get rid of him. You want to keep Mobley with this line-up. This team is for real now. On a side note, maybe the Rockets can use that exemption to trade for someone like Dale Davis? At least Amaechi gives us another body. Amaechi, Griffin and Mo are big bodies to burn at the PF spot. Portland had interest in Mo, maybe Mo and the exemption for Davis?
Ok, wow.. can't believe on the ONE day I don't log into CC 20 times, this happens.. hehe From first impressions, here is what it looks like - tell me if I am wrong. 1) Trade with Utah - We both gave and got value, as did Utah. As long as the value gained is a value the receiving team wanted more than they wanted to keep the value they gave away, and both teams feel that way, then IMO that is always the sign of a good trade for both teams. Remember the Rox' rosters of the past years.. there has ALWAYS been a big stiff riding the pine, usually a big lurch white guy, and often a big white lurch of a first rounder. So losing Collier this year and replacing him with Amaechi is a wash. And at least he has shown something in the league. Unless the team nose-dives and JVG quits in the middle of the season again, and we end up with the worst record in the league, then I am not crying about giving up a first rd pick. I think that 'guaranteed 3 year contract' for 1st-rounders is a stupid rule anyway. JVG obviously wants vets instead of more youth. All the other picks in the deal will most likely be dealt numerous times before their actual drafts anyway. So to me it looks like Rice (9 mil) went for Amaechi and 6.5 mil TE. Personally I think that makes it easier for us to make a deal with other teams than just hanging onto Rice. I like this deal. 2) JJ to Rox for the min? That is such a good deal that it is not even worth talking about. I do that deal every day and twice on Sundays. If JVG can make Spree into a useful player, then have no fear of the JJ. So really, I guess it all boils down to this: is Rice more valuable to us than Cat and the 6.5mil TE ? I think not. Because of Cat's high level of skill, he's valuable anyway, because he's still way underpaid (but due a big payday on the horizon). Add in the TE and now you can start licking your chops, looking for the teams out there who have need of a good proven scorer and reasonable defender at the 2, who also happens to have a top-tier high dollar power forward lying around.. can't be too many of those.. so, IF a deal is to happen, maybe even Cat + Cato + 6.5mil TE, what teams out there fit that target mold? We talkin KMart? We talking Brand? We talking Walker? We Talking J Oneal? I think another move is pending, but even if it doesn't happen right off, I believe the team is signifigantly improved, without losing real value. ciao
