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[Jerome Solomon]Roy O wants to be traded?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Ottomaton, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    [rquoter]
    Is Roy Oswalt trying to talk his way out of Houston?

    Roy Oswalt went stone cold silent after Cecil Cooper said the team needed Oswalt to be Oswalt.

    A couple weeks ago he acted all excited that the Astros traded Pudge Rodriguez and he called for more of his teammates to get shipped out of town.

    (Note: He was the first one to say that this season is over.)

    Now he has openly questioned the effort of his teammates - some of whom he would love to see shipped off to parts unknown.

    These are signs of a person who isn't just unhappy, but someone who might only be happy somewhere else.

    • • •​

    Don't go thinking that just because he has been presented as a simple guy who wants only to throw strikes and ride a tractor that Oswalt doesn't know how to play the game.

    Oswalt has been in MLB long enough to know that star players control their own destiny in this sport.

    Are all of his actions calculated moves? Maybe not, but he isn't just flying off the handle either.

    Athletes know they can't callout teammates, the general manager or ownership in the media without repercussions.

    Oswalt has now done all of the above.

    Oswalt understands the difficulty of making trades after the trade deadline, so his suggestion to move players to upgrade for next year wasn't just a suggestion. It was a straight-up critique of Ed Wade and his performance as a general manager.

    Believe me, Wade knows this, and I can't imagine that he is happy about it.

    That had to play a part in Wade's reaction to Oswalt's Wednesday night whine that some on the team appeared to be going through the motions.

    "If he feels that way, he should name names, either that or address the players privately," Wade told Jesus Ortiz. "I just think that it's something that if he feels strongly about that, so strongly that he feels compelled to make public, I think he specifically should point out players who he feels aren't giving 100 percent. Because otherwise it's an indictment of the other 24 players on the club. I prefer for those things to be dealt with in private."

    This response cracked me up. Basically, Wade said there is a right way and a wrong way, and though he would prefer you do things the right way, if you're going to do them the wrong way, do it big. Go big or go home.

    Wade doesn't really want Oswalt to publicly embarass a teammate.

    Can you imagine the uproar if Oswalt stood up and started naming names? There would be some serious squabbling in the clubhouse. Not the petty cheerleader squad junk the Astros have now.

    • • •​

    When Oswalt said some Astros are cheating the owner, he wasn't talking to the players. He was talking to the owner.

    Perhaps all of this gives Oswalt an out so he'll feel better when the situation comes to a head. It's obvious that it will be either him or several of the teammates he doesn't like who'll have to leave this coming offseason.

    You don't have to name names for the names you didn't name to know it is their names you would have named if you were naming names.

    If, or more likely when, Cecil Cooper gets fired after the season, the Astros won't magically become playoff contenders. The players Oswalt doesn't like won't become his best friends because Cooper isn't around. The guys Oswalt doesn't believe can help the Astros win a championship won't become championship players with Cooper out of the dugout.

    If he doesn't get what he wants, Oswalt can say the team didn't show that it was serious about improving and contending in the near future. That's all he wants.

    That's not too much for him to ask.

    • • •​

    Many of you talk about trading half the major league roster to get prospects that might help the team contend in three or four years. You think Oswalt wants this?

    He has to be thinking: "Am I just supposed to sit here while the team builds toward a dream run in 2012?"

    Oswalt isn't a senator with presidential aspirations, so a 2012 run is not his goal. Next year will be his 10th in MLB. He won 20 games in 2004 and '05. He probably won't do that again. His ERA was 2.98 in '06, but since has gone up to 3.18, to 3.54 to 3.86 this year.

    He'll probably have great days ahead, but not as many as he has had in the past. Unless he goes chemical, he is on the other side of the mountain of his pitching career.

    He wants - and needs - to win now.

    The tea leaves seem to indicate the guy is starting to believe that he can't win here anytime soon.

    If you can't win at a place, why would you want to stay there?

    What is best for the Astros might not be what is best for Roy Oswalt.

    Seriously, do you see a logical and likely scenario (again, logical and likely) where the team will be a World Series contender in the next couple of years?

    Wouldn't surprise me if he wants out.

    [/rquoter]

    I remember before the season there were several people who got really upset when a Red Sox fan asked about the availability of Roy - he was an Astro's lifer, and totally untouchable.

    Does anybody still feel that way?
     
  2. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    Solomon is a dillhole like Justice. My guess is he knows little about baseball or the Astros and their history.

    He stretched at least a couple truths in that piece and comes off as someone trying to fuel the fire, i.e., instigate things in any way possible. He just wants juicy stuff to write about. He couldn't care less about Roy Oswalt or Astros fans.

    I see a lot of people saying that Roy is just being a whiny baby. That may be true but my gut tells me there is more to this story than meets the eye and I'm siding with Roy until all the facts come out. I have no strong reason to take this attitude other than my confidence as a fan in Roy as a person and professional. I may end up looking like an idiot for blindly having faith in him but I'll take that risk.

    I'm also getting a worse and worse vibe about Ed Wade as time goes on.
     
  3. Depressio

    Depressio Contributing Member

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    At least Justice knows about the Astros. Solomon is a complete tool an idiot who enjoys living in the past, but Justice's sarcasm and unabashed flip-floppiness amuses me actually.

    I wish the Chronicle had an Astros writer like Feigen.
     
  4. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    I don't want to derail this thread too much but I have to admit I do laugh at some of Justice's stuff. I still don't find him a good sportswriter. There are people I don't like that make me laugh occasionally in all facets of entertainment.

    I prefer the substance you get with Zach Levine's pieces over the sensationalism you get from those other clowns.

    As far as Feigen, I see him as a poor writer. His stuff is usually full of errors, doesn't flow and is just generally hard to read. He also writes fluff pieces most of the time and it's boring. His basketball knowledge doesn't impress me at all.
     
    #4 BrooksBall, Aug 28, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2009
  5. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Contributing Member

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    Oswalt didn't exactly flat say his teammates should be traded like Solomon implies. That's a stretch and irresponsible thing to say.

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/6577173.html

    Sounds like a guy that wants to win now, but wants to win with this team if possible. I hardly think it sounds like someone that's got one foot out the door.

    But I wouldn't be shocked at all if he doesn't want to stay around and wait for the rookies to develop into big league players.

    And Oswalt has always seemed like a guy that says it like it is....so his statements the past few weeks haven't been all too shocking...nevermind that he's probably right.
     
  6. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    Let's just take a look at all the parties involved since we don't yet definitively know all the facts and probably won't for several months:

    Ed Wade - Fired from his last stint as a GM. Got choked and thrown to the ground by a player last season. In fairness, Chacon was a dumb thug. Still, Wade got frickin' choked by one of his own. I never heard about Chacon strangling other GMs.

    Cecil Cooper - Less than 2 seasons in his current role as MLB manager. Reports everywhere are doubting his abilities both on the field and in the clubhouse. The average fan can see issues. His termination seems inevitable.

    Queen Solomon - Where the heck did this guy come from? Does he even live in Houston? Who is he to trash talk a Houston sports icon like Roy Oswalt and make up things/stretch facts?

    Roy Oswalt - 10-year Astros vet who has, to my knowledge, been universally respected by his teammates, owner and fans as well as other players and staff around the league. A guy who has generally kept his mouth shut over those 10 years and done nothing but kick ass on a consistent basis (winningest pitcher during his tenure on a team that clearly didn't have the best offenses over that stretch).

    Once again, until all the facts come out, my guy tells me to side with Roy no matter what Ed Wade or Cecil Cooper or any of the instigators in the local media say.
     
    #6 BrooksBall, Aug 28, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2009
  7. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    Surely Solomon can't be basing all this on those quotes by Oswalt. Are there more? If not, that's rather bad journalism.
     
  8. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    He did pretty much build the phillies team that won the WS. While he isn't Gerry he isn't terrible. Maybe his people skills suck.

    I don't know why coop has a job, he should have been fired a long time ago.
     
  9. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    Yea, he pulled in some big pieces but I've read he had tons of failures, too.

    And he still got fired... and choked by one of his own players.

    I'll side with Roy, not that you were suggesting I do otherwise.
     
  10. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    Ed Wade did a good job as Phillies GM. In Philly, they have a short fuse. Not a good place to need time to rebuild a winner.

    As for Chacon, that was Coop's fault. If he was a decent manager at all, he would have handled the Chacon situation and the GM would never have been in the room for a meeting with the player over on the field stuff.

    I tend to agree with this. Oswalt has never been a loose cannon. He has always done his job and done it quietly. I think he is starting to panic because he sees his window of opportunity shrinking.
     
  11. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    You may be right, Refman, but I've read about a lot of stuff Wade did wrong, too. I'd have to go dig up the material. I think any GM, given enough time, will produce some good talent.

    Regardless, there is something about Wade that doesn't sit right with me. Much like my stance about this whole Roy thing, though, it's not an educated opinion, just a gut instinct. I could be dramatically wrong about everything. I just hate to see one of my favorite players who I respect greatly getting into this kind of situation. And because of his track record, I will side with him until there are facts that prove I shouldn't.
     
  12. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    Drayton responds: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6591988.html

    A lot of it is just talk but there's some interesting stuff, at least from my perspective.

    And, Drayton, our key injuries have been far from the worst, even looking at just the NL and this season. The Mets and Cubs had it worse. The Reds were without their Roy and Lance (Volquez and Votto) for much longer than us.
     
  13. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    You may ultimately be right about Wade. I don't think so, but I don't know for sure either. Did he produce some good talent? Yeah...enough to be the key pieces in the Phillies' World Series run. When we hired Wade, some Phillie fans told us that we made a good decision.

    We need a GM that will put good talent on the farm for the team to develop and call up to win. Wade has proven to be very good at that.
     
  14. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    I really don't know enough to judge him on a baseball level. I guess what I should have said earlier is that there is something that bothers me about his personality, at least from what I'm seeing from afar. Hopefully, I'm wrong about that and I'm trying to remain optimisitc about him from a purely baseball standpoint. He's gotta be better than Purpura, right? :D
     
  15. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    Well, yeah. Any of us would be better than Timmy P.

    That guy was awful. The sad thing is that when they fired him, they identified the problem. Firing Garner was unnecessary, and a boneheaded move.
     
  16. TheBigAristotle

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    We have to be very mature when we look at this situation. Wade is definitely better than POOPURA!
     
  17. superden

    superden Contributing Member

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    I miss Gerry Hunsicker. At least we put out a competing each year. Freaking Drayton. :mad:
     
  18. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Bahaha... that meanie reporter isn't a homer like me, how dare he write a controversial opinion about MY team. Oh my god dude.
     
  19. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    I don't like Jerome Solomon. It's not just that he's not a homer.

    Feigen is a total homer/mouthpiece and I can't stand his stuff.

    No need for the "Bahaha" and "Oh my god dude" unless you're just looking for an argument. I won't bite this time.
     
  20. jev5555

    jev5555 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Kind of eerily similar to the way Billy Wagner went out. Speaks out against the teams effort and the next thing you know Drayton is trading him away.

    Roy said what was on his mind and that pissed the front office off because they are trying to sell tickets to the public and they didn't need the negative PR. The real fraud is the organization for not dumping players who will not be with us next year and then continuing to push this on field product as a contender. If they move Roy I would probably expect them to move Berkman and Lee and more.

    Wade is a smart guy and he has done great things with our farm system...but he downright sucks when it comes to handling the established players. He's cocky and brash...he's basically that boss that everyone has...you know the one you'd like to give a swift kick to the groin and tell him to go f**k himself. Intuition tells me this is going to be an ugly 2 or 3 years for the stros.
     

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