Something that I think it's worth pointing out, though a couple people have mentioned before but it's worth re-mentioning, is that Lin's game is 'quiet'. That 38 pt game against the Laker's? D'Antoni himself didn't even realize it got that high until after the game. Many of the post-Heat games were also on the 'quiet' side... But what does 'quiet' really mean? Lin himself says his game isn't flashy, it's not going to be full of dunks and hope-to-God shots and to me THAT was Linsanity, all the highlight reels and media hype. Honestly though, if Lin just had highlight reels, he'd be as interesting to me as someone like Melo or Kobe: I'd appreciate their athleticism distantly but not really care. What reeled me in about his game is all the subtle things he does that makes his team better, passing and spacing and communication, that he passes if he sees the opening, that he makes really good decisions for his age/experience. Of course there were mistakes. But that was one of the amazing things to watch too: how Lin would struggle for 3 quarters and you can see him trying to learn each new defense that teams kept throwing at him, and then coming out hot in 4th quarter and dismantling leads left and right. I have no doubt that Lin would improve this season, his story is full of his constantly seeking improvement, and for the people who were actually paying attention during his games last season it was right there on display.
I'm a big Lin supporter, but let's be realistic. In Lin's NBA career, he will be competing against the following 10 elite PGs: Chris Paul Russell Westbrook Derrick Rose Kyrie Irving Rajon Rondo Tony Parker Deron Williams Ricky Rubio John Wall Damian Lillard I doubt Lin will ever be better than any of them. That means he will probably never be the top 10. Throw in the following PGs who are arguably better/equally good already: Stephen Curry Ty Lawson Jrue Holiday Kyle Lowry Goran Dragic Mike Conley Brandon Knight The total list already counts at least 17 good PGs, whom Lin will have hard time to excel. And let's not forget the future draft PGs who could join the elite list. So in my opinion, the best case scenario for Lin is to be ranked between 10 to 15. That is: second tier, above average PG. I would be more than happy if Lin could achieve that level. I don't understand why some Lin fans feel it offensive when people say Lin will be about average or above average.
LMAO. Your list is so ****ed up. Damian Llilard is better than Kyle Lowry? What the **** has Dame done to be up that high. And why is John Wall up there. Since when is Wall better than Conley. Yeah your list needs to be fixed.
He needs to improve his: - left hand driving - get better at turning the corner instead of going 'around' - ball handle - dribble the ball closer to the ground - be able to maintain control running fast and under physical pressure - again lower centre of gravity - shot (self explanatory) - finishing around the rim, particularly with his left hand - emulate the double clutch with his left. If he does all that before 26. He will be GREAT. If he doesnt, forever an average player.
Kyrie Irving is not elite. Neither is RUBIO??? and LILLARD??? And your second list is fairly mehhh. Considering Lin beat Rubio, Irving, Jennings in NY. Conley, Lowry, Knight in Houston. Your case is pretty meh.
Well, I just listed the names, in no specific order. Clearly the order is up to discuss because even the current top 10 order is still argued by the experts and fans.
You are insane. You must exclusively consume ESPN hype. Major points of contention: -Lillard has played 15 games (I have been extremely impressed but elite? NO). -Wall has shown/proven nothing except that he can score. He has no idea how to run an offense, much less a team. Also career 3P%? .236
If you read my post carefully, I was not talking about this year or even next year. I was talking about Lin's whole career years. Just because Lin beat Rubio or Irving in one or two games this year or next year does not make Lin superior than them in many years to come. Barring injuries, Kyrie Irving will be elite in a few years, anyone question that will have to redo their homework. Rubio too.
I think it's unfair to compare him to more experienced pgs and also to great pgs who are on the decline. Yeah, I'd take Conley over Lin, but I would take Lin over Nash just because dude's almost 40. What about young players with relatively similar NBA experience? I would take Lilliard and Irving over Lin, though Irving's defense is horrific. I would take Lin over Wall, but I've never been high on Wall. Btw Rubio and Lin -- not sure.E
I based my judgement on his skill sets and his age and experience. If Lin can improve a lot, Lillard can too. Of course, I can't say he will 100% turn out to be the elite. But his current performance level and his age indicates he is more likely than not to be an elite PG.
Rubio is elite? DWill is elite? Rose might not even be able to play anymore. I don't know, but Lin did OK against Westbrook. Take away Westbrook's 3 points that he got against Dougals and Westbrook looked average. Of course the Thunder was also doubling Lin as he approached the 3 point line to get the ball out of his hands. You must have an impact on the game if teams are game planning you.
Once again, I was not talking about this year or next year. So it's meaningless to point out Lin's experience with veterans' experience. I was talking about in Lin's prime years, those are the PGs he will be facing. Notice I didn't even put Steve Nash in the list because I carefully chose those of similar age of Lin. (One exception is Tony Parker, I could take him out from that top 10 list too. But he seems still healthy enough to play at least 3-4 years and maybe even another 8-10 years.) When Lin reaches his prime, let's say in 3 or 4 year. CP3, Westerbrook, Rose, Irving, Rondo, Rubio, Lillard, Wall, DWilliams, Parker will still all be there at their prime too and competing. Can Lin excel most of those guys? I have hard time to believe. That's my point. Of course, everything is possible.
Actually, you can compare Rubio's stats for last year vs Jeremy Lin's stats for this year so far. Striking resemblance. Low PERs, only around 10 shots per game, awful FG% (Lin is actually better), similar rebounding and steals (Lin has slight edge), Rubio a better pure passer (as expected, although taking into consideration James Harden handling the ball in Houston vs nobody at Minnesota, and Lin's much lower usage, the gaps is probably 1 assist per game). And also Minnesota clearly much better team when Rubio plays vs not, despite his poor shooting percentages. Very similar to when Lin plays PG (not corner 3pt shooter) for the Rockets (see Rockets stats games 1-2 and games 9-15 vs games 3-8, in terms of team shooting, assists and points scored). Lin and Rubio probably similar level defenders, with Lin having more explosiveness to penetrate deeper into the paint on offense. They both are team first, and on offense usually only takes what the defense give them. And Rubio is the pure point guard (can't wait for his return, just have to live with his shooting percentages), and Lin is the disappointment (despite his shooting percentage so far being on a much smaller sample size, and last year being pretty decent for a 1st yr PG).
When Kyle Lowry was in his first year I'm sure you would have said the same thing. That's the thing everybody is already judging him saying what he can and can't accomplish, give the guy a chance. Intelligence does play a role in being a good pg, so far I think he runs the team well. Once his shot comes around and he plays a little more aggressive I think we will wee great improvement. I think he had tremendous upside.
Wall is only 22 yo, 2 years younger than Lin. And Lin's career 3P% is .292. I wouldn't say that's much better than Wall. But if Lin can improve his 3p%, so can Wall. Wall is a scorer, that's indicator of good player. What's wrong with PG that can score? Wall's career assists No. is 8.2, so I wouldn't say he has no idea how to run an offense. Westerbrook can score too and people say he cannot run offense. Well, he has proved otherwise, especially this season. Lin will get better with a few years experience, so does Wall. Wall might put up even better numbers had he on a better team and surround him with better talent. I believe John Wall sure has all the natural talent and skills that make him elite down the road.
Lin's ability to be point guard comes from his understanding of efficiency. He has an instinct of what is a good shot and bad shot. Its not even about shots - he has an instinct about what is an effective play and an ineffective play. Many ppl in the NBA get their efficiency and ppg through a 'break down their man' kind of play style, where they learn certain shots and moves that beats their D. However, these players are limited if they can't integrate that into team play, because they will just get the defense modified to stop them. Of course, you have people who are practically unstoppable or are just all around difficult matchups on D, and those are the super stars. Jeremy is not a super star. He isn't going to break ankles, muscle down other PGs, do crossover pull up jumpers, or plow through 5 guys and get an And1. This is just not his build. He is going to be above average at best in terms of being a 'difficult matchup' for the opposing PG. However, when he is on the court offensively, he exploits weaknesses, he breaks down team D, he finds a way to get it to the post player, he finds the cutters, he makes the cuts, and he increases the potential effectiveness of virtually any offensive system. He understands where the 'effective plays' are and makes them. This is just his game. Does this make him 'superstar' potential? Who knows? But the fundamental rule of offense in basketball is you want to do whatever you can to create a shot. Superstars can do this by themselves, but JLin does this with the team. As a coach, I would want this kind of person on my team. He makes everyone more efficient because he runs what his instinct tells him are 'efficient plays'. And I think his instinct for that is the best in the league.
John Wall has a far superior allround game then Lin. LOF's and ex YOF/LOF like Mike_lu are bordering trol/delusional status.
