Well, as I said before, when we see or hear the unexpected, disbelief is a normal reaction. We don't EXPECT to see Asian Americans excelling at basketball; it's not racism, it's a statistical anomaly. It's difficult to give up old stereotypes and think out of the box. Most typically we will want additional examples repeated: more excellent games from Jeremy Lin for example. To put it simply, this is called cognitive dissonance. You EXPECT A and yet you see B. The problem is, instead of questioning your own stereotypes and belief systems, or being patient and waiting for additional confirming examples (more good games from Lin), you're getting impatient with another poster who has more flexible or additional cognitive categories: ie, basketball players can be from any race. Btw, the whole "sample size" issue and argument is specious. We have grand expectations of certain players on numerous occasions, based on a limited number of college games (Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant) or no college experience at all (Kevin Garnett). All of these players were heralded as future superstars without the benefit of any or with very limited college experience. But we don't question those predictions. Why? Because they're all black. And excellent black basketball player is a category which we all tend to accept with little evidence. So, this is simply a way of saying: a. be patient, Lin will play many more games. The evidence will surely mount over time. b. if possible, allow for the possibiliity of a paradigm shift, ie that individuals of all races can excel in athletics. Good luck padwan.
Your condescension is grating. Your implication that ALL doubters are fighting "cognitive dissonance" is beyond annoying. It's not specious to say to that a larger sample size would be appreciated. Unless you saw/heard ch0kob0freak tout the merits of KG back in the day or Kyrie in 2011, its insulting to make generalized assumptions about people who have a reasonable basis to doubt. It's about as insulting as me sitting right here assume that you are Asian and only love Lin for that reason. Lin's upside is a point on which reasonable people can differ. I personally think he'll be good if not great. But the points some LOFs make are truly grating and facile.
I just love people that dismiss Lin's upside then go drool all over Lamb, Motiejunas, etc. One of those guys has at least proven something in the NBA. Surely it can't be that farfetched that he, too, can improve.
Ironic; from your screename "imarealballer" to the psychological regurgitation you copied out of a college textbook, you seem to think you're some kind of genius. Your entire argument is centered around assuming I doubt Lin will be a HOF player because he's Asian, yet there is no evidence of me believing so. It's a pity you wrote such a fantastic piece of fiction for nothing though. Why don't you start over, this time without the premature (or simply misguided?) presumption and pompous attitude?
It IS farfetched: in the same way that it's "farfetched" to expect to see an African American female professor of mathematics at CalTech.
There is plenty of precedent to expect success of European or black players in the NBA. There is really none for an Asian American to succeed as an NBA player. Oddly enough, there are also endless examples of black and european players who will NOT succeed at the NBA level; so you are right, logically and statistically speaking we should EXPECT MOST rookies to have relatively unsuccessful careers, but we don't, even though it's the most logical prediction.
This argument will just go in circles. Yes there are some people who will be skeptical of his potential because of his race but to assume that all skeptics are hesitant because of his race is to much. At the same time, there are some people that have seen enough and are convinced that Lin will go on to be a superstar. There is nothing wrong with this belief and often it is rooted in an intangible feeling, just a gut reaction that man so and so can play. There were people who believed in Nash and Rondo from day 1 even though both still had a lot ot learn for this same reason. On the other hand, there will be some people who think Lin will be good but not great. There is nothing wrong with this belief as well. Using my previous example of Nash and Rondo some would have never imagined them becoming who they are today. At the same time Lin could very well become a player that is just good but not great. Nobody knows for sure but everyone will be watching to see. That is why we love sport.
Okay but you are operating under the premise that everyone expects success of European and Black players in the NBA. That isn't true for everyone. Guys doubted, and still doubt Nash and Rondo. Some guys didn't believe in the hype surrounding Kyrie or Rubio. This scepticism isn't limited exclusively to Asian players.
A reasonable position to be sure, but what's notable is the incredible vitriol that many posters bring to the debate. This is far from an exclusively logical/rational debate. What's odd is the illogical assumption and inference that when I say there is cognitive dissonance I am somehow implying that people are racist for assuming he won't be an outstanding PG. That's what's fascinating about this debate: how do people assume incorrectly, that they are being accused of racism when the argument (itself open to confirmation or disconfirmation) is that specific examples challenge our categories?
Ah, so because there has never been a successful Asian-American basketball player, we can conclude... Are you kidding me?
LOL, of course, we should all be able to evaluate players strictly on the basis of their merits, but, that's not how human minds and hearts operate. I'm even getting sick of the olympics broadcasts: "gabby has an interesting choice of attire: silver." Are you f'in' kidding me? The kid finished last! And so it goes...
He's making the argument that the reason so many people passed him up is not because of racism, and instead due to cognitive dissonance. While I agree in some sense, i think it's vastly optimistic and I do believe there are shades of racism. Especially in the case of Stephen A and his radio show. And specifically to ch0c0b0fr34k, i really hope you can go back and read what others write a little more closely, rather than calling people here pompous.
No, I am not, I was accepting ashes' assumption that rockets fans expect favorable outcomes for their draft picks (none of whom are asian), but are skeptical of lin's inability to play at a high level. As a matter of fact, I agree that the most logical prediction for the play of the rockets' rookies is mediocrity, in line with the performance of most players who are drifted mid first round.
When you are on a internet forum there will always be some element of misunderstanding so that plays a factor into someone's assumption. The part I bolded for example seems to infer that anyone who has a more flexible or additional cognitive categories has such because they believe that basketball player can be of any race. By that same token you imply the opposite that those who are more conservative with there cognitive categories are like that because they view the opposite (basketball players can only be from a few races). At least this is my interpretation of the statement. Plus when someone feels like they are getting attacked they naturally get defensive, it is human nature. Also on this board they check your join date and how many posts you have and that always influences someones perception of you and your intentions. It is what it is.
But that is an incorrect assumption. Not all Rocket fans expect favourable outcomes for there draft picks and not all rocket fans are skeptical of Lin's ability.
Stephen A isn't a racist per se. I do think that he is ignorant though and uses the undertones of race as his schtik to attract eyeballs. Do you only feel this way abotu SAS because of what he said about Lin?
Kyrie Irving is widely regarded as a franchise player. Ricky Rubio is seen as a generational talent by some. While not everyone sees them as such, few would deny at least the possibility. None would mention their "sample size", even though they have the same amount as Lin. If it was Kyrie Irving who scored the most points in NBA history his first 5 starts, do you think it would be ridiculous to think his upside is an all time great? How long do you think the Timberwolves think about it if we offered them Lowry for Rubio, the more proven and safer bet? Afterall, with so little sample size, Rubio could be a flash in the pan, no? Yet with Lin, even on this very site, by his very own fans, he is regarded as overpaid. $8M/year. That's about how much Jameer Nelson makes. Kyrie will get better and better from here. Rubio will grow and improve. Lin? "Good, not great." Why do you think that is?
Stephen A's lack of professionalism is so far beyond the pale, it leads me to speculate that he is there simply to reinforce the racial stereotype of the loud, angry, irrational black man. As far as your point, it depends upon how you define racism. If racism is synonymous with stereotypes, then yes, racism has played a role in the evaluation of J. Lin, ie deceptively quick, sneaky, not strong enough, etc. If racism must also include the component of deliberate, explicit intent to injure or harm on the basis of race, then the situation becomes less clear. No team in the league would intentionally WANT to pass on a great player, much less a great player who offers unparalleled marketing possibilities. This means that a lot of racism is SUB CONSCIOUS. Hence, we will NOT be able to consciously understand or explicitly acknowledge, that we are racist. And there, we are left to inferential evidence, not direct observable evidence.
Stephen A obviously has serious, serious issues relating to fear, self esteem, race and anger. It is surely speculative to say so, but his lack of professionalism is so severe and so obvious, I believe it fair to speculate that he was chosen SPECIFICALLY because he is unprofessional; he is a buffoon and caricature which reinforces the stereotype that black males are angry, irrational rage-a-holics.
To add to roxxy's response, we should also reasonably expect that there is no such thing as perfect information. Many people have not seen his games. Most are probably following their own favorite players, or just reading the game recaps after the fact. And even if they have seen his games, it's entirely reasonable for people to come up with different conclusions based on their experience, the same way people see different sides of a cube.
