There definitely is an argument for lin handling the ball more. Lin averages 6.7 assits in wins and 5.4 in losses. He averages 14.1 points in wins and 12.1 in losses. Shoots better too. And averages the same minutes in both wins and losses. turnovers about the same relative to assists. The more he gets involved the better he plays. Top point guards don't win chips because they are not the best players. Magic bird Jordan, hakeem, dDuncan, Shaw, Kobe, wade lebron. By this Logic harden won't ever win anything. 04 pistons won with billups running the show. Get a good team play defense and u might surprise herself even with ur point guard having a larger share of playmaking
LOL! It's funny how I agree with your post whole-heartedly though it was completely against me. Good post. Point taken. In my defense, I just finished reading the other thread where everyone was talking about biases against Lin (I think it was the 60 minutes thread with Lin and Charlie Rose?) and everyone was arguing with sirbaihu and I may have misplaced the post, just for clarity my personal feelings on this matter are: 1) I also thought (who wouldn't have) that Lin had a poor start to the year, preseason included, especially with his surprising lack of a mid-range game and poor poor shooting. Thus, any "hate" on Lin was fair game as he a public figure in a field where his abilities affect millions of people's happiness (you gotta love sports, right?). Consequently, any benching of Lin may have been derivative of that poor showing and almost excusable, had he not shown clear improvements. 2) And I don't know who you're mixing me up with, but I do not think he's a 30 pt player (I just posited that as evidence of D'Antoni's trust in Lin in contrast to McHale's comments on Lin's scoring), nor has he played anything close to an all-star level this year, nor do I not see that Harden is clearly our star, that Asik comes 2nd in importance, and that Lin and Parsons are quite equal in talent (I hope both pans out), meaning that he may even be only our 4th best player!! (personally I think he has the potential to be the 2/3rd). I've also always believed that Bev has been another awesome find this year (I have never even been anything but glowing of Beverley, Harden, Parsons, Asik, Delfino, hell I even gave Aldrich a pass) and having said that, why such disdain toward me? Cuz I criticized McHale? Did I attack him personally? Have I had a history of putting down other Rockets in the name of almighty Linsanity? Since I don't think that you have the time nor the inclination to go through my posts, I'll save you the time. I'm a big Harden/Asik/Parsons/Bev/D-Mo (even now)/TJones Delfino fan and I don't post anything negative except toward some of McHale's head-scratching moves and some overt haters. But what is my sin here, if I'm to be believed that I've loved our boys? 3) Lin gets more love than he may deserve exactly because so many people dog him unfairly. I'm sure you can see that. And its not because they are crazy people who think Lin is better than Harden or feel threatened by TD or Bev. Many of us think Lin is being treated unfairly and thus the defense mechanism (though I realize it needs to be toned down, me included) 4) McHale was not high on Lin. I don't think that is disputable, is it? Why are people so defensive when I say that McHale did not maximize Lin? And I'm not even saying that Lin's early poor play did not dictate that trust level rather than some conspiracy or racial motives. It's quite obvious that McHale/Sampson and the whole staff like Lin a lot and vice versa. But then, is it taboo to criticize McHale? Once again, I've never called McHale names, I've never ever mentioned anything negative about him personally (except when he was a Celtic). In fact, I'm quite rah rah about our entire team and I have never criticized any of our other players undeservingly or harshly (except TD, I love him as a person, I don't think he is a PG). As mentioned above, I've glowed about Beverley since I saw that he had pg skills since Day 1, I've been an ardent supporter of Harden, I've had a man crush on Parsons. I even love Asik's offense for crying out loud and love his occasional Dream-like moves more than any Lin highlight. I love Delfino despite the occasional dumb TOs and the poor shooting games cuz he's an "impact" player who can score in bunches and make the winning play (let the shooter shoot, I say) and I strongly support D-Mo and TJones, and have supported them unwaveringly all year long, inconsistency and all! I've also been optimistic about the Rockets all year long and am to this day. I hope to win a playoff series THIS YEAR, and I do think that this core can contend given a bit of help by Morey and time. My only negative posts are in regards to McHale in that I personally felt he was mismanaging one of the core pieces of our team, rather obviously and it was frustrating. And in the end, it's my opinion. Can I not criticize McHale? Old Man Rock, don't misunderstand me. I get your point. I'll try my best to be more positive on this board, but it's not fair to paint with a broad brush anytime anyone criticizes McHale.
To Hell with the Lin with the Knicks Lin with the Rockets is the player you should only think about period.
hating on lin or harden is just so stupid, maybe all of us rockets fans can just stop hatin on any of our players, they are all working very hard for the team, lets just apreciate them all,
So Harden is only 23 years old and you are saying he can never be a top player in the NBA when many experts already consider him a super star player... I guess you know something they don't. Did you calculate how many points and assist Harden had in those games as well and the time spent with both of them running the offense...??? You went in found ONE stat to support YOUR theory without evaluating the entire game. If you look at Harden's #'s in those wins and you will see they can share the ball. In time they will have a smooth back and forth transition with the ball and the running of the offense like Harden and Westbrook had. It doesn't happen over night. But that's just my opinion but like I said _ history shows running the offense completely through the point guard is not a championship formula unless you're speaking of Magic (and he had a team full of all time great players).
Harden is a top player, agreed. Lin or any point guard should not completely run the offense as long as a player like Harden is on the roster, as Harden is such a great playmaker and pnr player. The problem is that McHale/Sampson (said with fear that I'll be attacked) may rely on Harden a bit too much as evidenced by his minutes and usage rate as the initiator of the offense. A better balanced offense with slightly more plays led by Lin than now, even in the 4th quarter can only be good for the team unless Harden is feeling it (which trumps anything) imo.
Yea I've notice...just checked the stats to confirm and bang Last 5 games stats for lin average: 18.8 points shooting .493 fg and .455 3pointer 8assist. Last 10 games stats for lin average: 14.4 points shooting .473 fg and .414 3pointers 6.4 assist imagine what the number would be if he was allowed to pad his stats during the 3-4 games he had to sit out during 4th cuz we were winning by a mile. Overall he did start of the season kinda slow but damn you can't deny that you are seeing some real consistency now towards the end of the season. I can't wait to see what he brings next season. I'm predicting 17.5pts 7.5 assist next season.
Of course you can b**** about the coach. No matter who coaches some will disagree with his decisions. Thats the nature of coaching. I criticize McHale all the time. Everyone knows I do not think he is the best coach, even on the current staff. But Toney Douglas had some games early on that were better than Lin's performances. And giving him a lot of Lins minutes was at least somewhat justified. The same can be said about Beverly. Only now Lin has stepped up his game to the point you got to go with him more consistently down the stretch. So maybe McHale is mismanaging Lin but it is not like he has it out for the kid. I get the impression he quite likes lin. I just think he sometimes says things that he really doesn't mean or he doesn't mean it exactly the way it came out. I think he probably didn't exactly mean the comment “Sometimes he’d rather have 29 points and nine turnovers and I tell him, ‘Jeremy, we’re trying to win,’ ”. I think his real point was Jeremy you have to stay focused and not turnover the ball so much. And that is a valid message. Sure he said it the wrong way but McHale and Lin seem to be on good terms. So if Lins okay with it why should make it such a big deal. In the End Lin is improving ... the Rockets are improving... and I think even McHale is improving.
Let's round that up to 18 and 8, lol. That's my hope, at least. I also hope Harden will be universally recognized as a superstar next year and that he'll up his defense substantially. And that Asik will continue to kick butt on the defensive end and in rebounding and will catch a bit better to maximize our offense, next year. As for Parsons, I don't know how much better he can get as he's been pretty awesome this year. But I guess if I had to pick one thing, it would be his defense. It was much better last year than this year, though in his defense, he did have to put more work in on the offensive end. And I hope our PF position gets shored up, either via trade or through development of D-Mo/Tjones. I also hope Lin works on limiting his lazy turnovers and continues to improve his shooting (still not 100% reliable to me) and develops a better floater. It would improve his game so much. Most importantly, I expect and hope for a successful season for the Rockets next year with a top 4 seed as our main goal and hopefully to put fear into some teams out there. The sky's the limit for the young Rockets!!
It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Of course not, but on a Rockets forum, as a competitive fan, I hate to see mistakes made that can lead to a negative by the coaching staff. And I know that all coaches make mistakes and that the benching of Lin was justified to a degree. I still disagree with sitting Lin the entire 4th on more than several occasions, but it's just my opinion. And I have always agreed that McHale never had it in for Lin. Just that he did not look too positively on Lin's impact in the game, evidenced by the benching of Lin at odd times, which I disagreed with. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that I got the distinct impression that McHale especially was irked by Lin's mistakes above the other players. But maybe that's just me. Just how I saw it, but then again, I do watch the game through the eyes of a lifelong pg fanatic. It's actually quite funny that I love Lin's game, considering that I hate lazy turnovers, lol. My blood pressure skyrockets every time I see a dumb turnover especially by the pg, but god help me I love the way he plays. I love the charges he takes. The help on D (sometimes this can be a critique). The tendency to want to utilize his big men. His aggressiveness in penetrating without actually great moves once he gets in there, lol. In fact, I'm one of those homers who truly believe that he is special and moreover that this team has something special and that all our players have great potential.
and most of those PG's played for teams who were or who are quite successful. lets not evade the fact that many of the championship winning teams were led by teams with usually 2 or 3 superstars which this team does not have.
In losses harden averages 5.4 assists to 4.3 to. Thats an a/to ratio of 1.25. In wins harden averages 6.2 assists to 3.0 to, for a 2.1 ratio. Harden TOs are a big feature in losses. In 66% of games he has 4 or more. In 44% he has 5 or more. In 25% of losses he has 6 or more. In 13% of losses he has 7 or more. Compares that to wins, where it is 44%, 24%, 5% and 2%, respectively. Lin on the other hand averages 2.1 assists per TO irrespective of wins or losses. Now as for harden never winning a title i was pointing to ur logical fallacy that a ball dominant point guard never wins a title. The best team will win it every year irrespective of whether u have a ball dominant pg or the best player. But in any event i'll play ur game. Going back 3 decades the best player on each championship team were as follows: Magic johnson Larry Bird Isiah Thomas Joe Dumars Michael Jordan Hakeem Olajuwon Tim Duncan Shaquille O'Neil Chauncy Billups Kobe Bryant Dwyane Wade Kevin Garnett Dirk Nowitski Lebron James. Of thsese guys who will harden be as good as or better than? Isiah, joe, billups definitely. Maybe Nowitski. Maybe maye maybe Wade. The first three were tenacious defenders whi led great, deep defensive tesms. Dirk won because of a big brain fart by lebron. The lsst guy had statistically perhaps thf the GOAT finals performance as measured by PER. So for harden to win a championship as THE MAN he will need to either: - become a GOAT candidate; - become elite defensively and spearhead an elite defensive team; - hope the GOAT candidate on the opposing team doesnt show ip; or - turn in the best finals performance in history Harden will be a great player no doubt, maybe borderlibe top 5. But he aint holding the jocksteap of most of the guys on the list. Harden will never sniff the other guys in their primes.
I'm talking about winning championships and not just winning a buch of games. And I forgot to add Iverson who was a one man wrecking crew. And if Lin plays up to his ability we could have 2 super stars in the backcourt. Even better.
So now you're arguing that Lin is the only reason the Rockets win and Harden is the only reason they lose... Lol.. I don't debate people's future but Harden is arguably a top 5 player (easily top 10) right now in his first year as a starter. He doesn't have to be better than Michael or Kobe because those guys are out of the league (are about to be). The only thing your list prove is you have to have multiple stars and or top talent to win a championship..
Jesus H efin Christ. Where did I say that lin was the only reason the rockets win and harden is the only reason they lose? One single player is not wholly responsible for wins or losses. My quote shows that u need several stars to win and the top star has to be the best or second best player in the league. 26 out of 30 championships have had the best player or second best player in the league on the team. Harden will not ever be a top 2 player. He doesn't have the defensive awareness to be at the top. And as to ur other post Lin won't be the second superstar. Its nice to have faith in ur team but come on...
You won't get to much argument from me on this. I am a Lin fan. I am sold on the kid. People who talk about Lowry and Dragic being better... talent wise there may be some truth there. And in the begining of the season it was to argue against but not anymore. He is clearly the better player. ANd do not throw stats at me. Lin brings so many intangibles to the team it is ridiculous and most importantly he plays to win. I think that was part of his problem early on. He was deferring too much thinking that was best for the team. Which made him look like a no show in some games. In the past he has deferred to Harden when he should take his own. He has passed on shots when he should have taken it to the hole. McHale sees these things just like us and decides Lin is not helping us. I agree he does it a little quickly. And maybe Lin wasn't his guy. I get the impression McHale wants the credit and does not want some kid coming in here and with all this fame and taking the limelight from him. Plus Dragic was his guy. He didn't like Lowry so when they traded him McHale was happy and when Dragic stepped up he was ecstatic. He wanted Dragic back and not some fan mania kid from New York. And when Lin didn't perform up to par he could say see I told you so. And when Lin scored 29 pts and everyone was going Lin Mania again it was easy for him to for him to deflect that by pointing out his 9 turnovers and not his 29 pts. I do not like that style of coaching. Adelman would have never done that. But coaches do not like being force fed their choices. And he didn't single out Lin. he did the same thing to DMo when they traded PPat. He hated trading PPat and preferred to play Delfino over DMo and didn't even call up TJones. When he did play DMo and DMo had a good game he said yeah it was okay but he is a rook and expect him to have ups and down. To me that is not necessary to say that. But that is his style and he does seem to be coming around. Lin is playing more in the 4th and I even heard McHale say he has a great group of guys to coach and TJones has been solid. So he is coming around. And he does deserve some slack. He had a family tragedy that most of us cannot fathom. That had to effect everything in his life not just his coaching. And maybe he is just coming around and we are starting to see his real style. Personally I think he has a great coaching staff behind him and they are finally getting through to him. But it doesn't matter why as long as he continues to coach better and Lin continues to play better all is good in Rockets world.
