Oh yes, the 2013 join date rebuttal. Of course ALL of you guys are 40-yr vets who just happened to join in 2013 right? But yes of course, you've seen Jason Kidd in his prime and in his youth. You've seen him notch up triple doubles like breathing air, of COURSE Jeremy Lin is comparable to Kidd.
Let me make this clear. I've got no problems with 2012/13 posters in general. It just so happens that the same people who believe Jeremy Lin will be a superstar and the next Jason Kidd or next Steve Nash happen to be solely composed of the above posters. You responded to what I considered a good argument - that Jeremy Lin has a LONG way to go before matching Jason Kidd's accomplishments - with "Put Jason Kidd next to Harden and Asik and let's see him get those triple doubles". So you're basically stating Harden and Asik are the reasons why Jeremy Lin isn't notching triple doubles, OR you're stating Jason Kidd would've never been a triple double threat with Asik/Harden on his team. Both of which are absolutely wrong and stupid arguments to make.
Co-signed, Me (2 weeks ago we played drunken h-o-r-s-e, I missed a hook shot from behind the van. This week, I did too many Patron's and scored with a fat chick)
Lin is a STUDENT of the game. And he likes to get "A"s. The comparison to Jason Kidd is a good comparison. Although Lin was/is not the star Kidd was when he entered the league, Kidd was a slicer/dicer passer and good defender with no jump shot. The difference between Kidd and Lin was Kidd was never put in the position Lin is in now early in Kidd's career. He was always the playmaker, always the lead guard. So Kidd never really developed his 3-pt shot because he didn't have to. He was penetrating and kicking to 3-pt shooters, the same role Lin was in primarily last year with the Knicks. It wasn't until Kidd got older and he started playing in a system where he was just one of 3 or 4 penetrators on the team that his 3-pt shot really developed to around 40%. He had one year with the Nets where he hit 40% but that was a fluke. It wasn't until he started playing alongside Dirk, Terry, etc. that Kidd's 3-pt shot really became a consistent weapon. Lin is in his second season. He has already proven he is a load to deal with in the PnR with the floor spread with shooters. And now he is developing his 3-point shot to be more effective off Harden's PnRs. Lin is a great STUDENT and he's a winner. Don't be surprised if he's a 40% 3-point shooter, even off the spot ups, etc. in about another year or so. He is simply going to get better. He is still on the upward trajectory of his learning curve.
Comparing Lin to a young Jason Kidd is ridiculous. It would be like comparing Chandler Parsons to Larry Bird
Kidd is no where near birds level. Comparing that comparison to the original comparison is ridiculous.
I don't think he's necessarily comparable to anyone nor does he have to be. At least nobody jumps out of comes to mind off the top of my head. Just needs to continue and improve his game and be Jeremy Lin. If he can start hitting his jumper consitantly then he'll be a good fit next to Harden.
He's got to shoot what the Defense gives us. And him putting up 3 a game and hitting at least 1 which he has done consistently is enough to help spread the floor which is what we need.
To get a better idea, let's look at the career 3p% for starting pgs: Tony Parker---------0.314 Russell Westbrook---0.302 Derrick Rose---------0.310 Rajon Rondo---------0.241 John Wall------------0.224 Raymond Felton -----0.332 Kemba Walker--------0.326 Ricky Rubio----------0.299 Kyle Lowry-----------0.341 Devin Harris----------0.315 Jamaal Tinsley-------0.302 Jeremy Lin-----------0.321 Greivis Vasquez------0.326 Brandon Jennings-----0.350 Damian Lillard---------0.351 Isaiah Thomas--------0.352 Deron Williams--------0.352 Goran Dragic---------0.353 Jeff Teague----------0.357 Mario Chalmers-------0.365 Darren Collison-------0.368 Jrue Holiday----------0.371 George Hill-----------0.372 Brandon Knight-------0.374 Mike Conley----------0.379 Jameer Nelson--------0.382 Ty Lawson-----------0.386 Kyrie Irving-----------0.412 Steve Nash-----------0.428 Stephen Curry--------0.442 Out of the 30 starting pgs, only 3 players' 3p% are in the >= 0.4 range. The remaining are split between <= 0.35 range and 0.35 to 0.39 range. The mean of the 3p% of all 30 starting pgs is 0.345. So yes, anywhere between 33% to 37% is good enough.
jeremy lin is shooting the 3 ball much better than we think actually because he's had such a problem with those foot on the line non 3's. although he has cut down on them recently. he's made probably 10 or more of those this year. I think that's conservative actually since I've watched every game this year and there was a stretch of games he had 1 or two in each game. lin is currently 54/166 on 3's which is 32.5%. if he had kept his toe back on those shots he'd really be 64/176 on 3's which is 36%.
To get a better idea, let's look at the career 3p% for starting pgs: Tony Parker---------0.314 Russell Westbrook---0.302 Derrick Rose---------0.310 Rajon Rondo---------0.241 John Wall------------0.224 Raymond Felton -----0.332 Kemba Walker--------0.326 Ricky Rubio----------0.299 Kyle Lowry-----------0.341 Jamaal Tinsley-------0.302 Jeremy Lin-----------0.321 Greivis Vasquez------0.326 Brandon Jennings-----0.350 Damian Lillard---------0.351 Isaiah Thomas--------0.352 Deron Williams--------0.352 Goran Dragic---------0.353 Jeff Teague----------0.357 *Chris Paul------------0.360 Mario Chalmers-------0.365 Darren Collison-------0.368 Jrue Holiday----------0.371 George Hill-----------0.372 Brandon Knight-------0.374 Mike Conley----------0.379 Jameer Nelson--------0.382 Ty Lawson-----------0.386 Kyrie Irving-----------0.412 Steve Nash-----------0.428 Stephen Curry--------0.442 Out of the 30 starting pgs, only 3 players' 3p% are in the >= 0.4 range. The remaining are split between <= 0.35 range and 0.35 to 0.39 range. The mean of the 3p% of all 30 starting pgs is 0.346. So yes, anywhere between 33% to 37% is good enough. *Fixed: removed Devin Harris & added Chris Paul
Thanks interesting info. Do you have the current season numbers too? That'd be more interesting to look at I think. I know a few of those guys are 35+ this season, like Parker, Lowry, Vasquez. Players like Lowry improved their 3 pointer a lot as their career progressed. Mario Chalmers has developed a stronger 3 pointer since that's whats needed in the situation he's in on the Heat. He's made some pretty decent leaps since Lebron/Bosh came in. Even Kemba Walker has improved his shot a lot since last year. I think Lin can do the same, especially since the Rockets playing style and roster really needs that out of him. Parker is playing out of his mind this year, probably the best PG in the league at the moment, and it's a reach but I don't see why Lin can't be Parkeresque if he develops a nice midrange pull up and a floater.
he mos def is. look at how he handled the tough pgs like westbrook and other point guards this year. He can score much more on them now and get more ast.
The same can be said for several other players like Dragic who is shooting 0.320 this season & 0.337 last season which is below his career average of 0.353. Isaiah Thomas 0.312 this season vs 0.352 career; Jameer Nelson 0.345 this season vs 0.382 career; CP3 0.348 this season vs 0.360 career; Jrue Holiday 0.350 this season vs 0.371 career; etc. The problem with using figures from a single season is that the samples (i.e. 3pta) for some of the above players may not be big enough. Take for instance Tony Parker, his 3p% can vary from 0.395 in 06/07 to 0.258 the following season. The reason is simply because he takes very few 3pta, like in 06/07 he took <0.5 3pta per game. If you look at his career 3pta, he took the most 3pta per season (close to 200) during his first 3 seasons which is also when his 3pt% are very close to his career average. His 3pta in subsequent seasons are way below 100 3pta. That is <1 3pta per game on average. In fact, when considering the best 3pt shooter in the league, most statistician tend to use a minimum 200 3pta per season as a qualifier.
