You guys are hilarious, still arguing with each other?!? Even if you win you are still r****ded while Jeremy Lin collects his millions.
If you are butt hurt about your lowry/gogi which is fine. If you don't know how Lin was brought in to the Rockets as their starting PG and you claim yourself a royal Rocket fan, shame on you.
Ok, first, let's leave Lowry out of the discussion. Lowry is a top 10 PG and there are very few serious basketball fans that would consider Dragic OR Lin to be better than Lowry or even comparable. If you want to compare Dragic and Lin, the argument really isn't as clear as you think. Dragic is a superior scorer. I won't disagree with that. However, Dragic is not nearly as good of a passer as Lin. You can use the raw assist and TO numbers, but raw assists and TO are actually misleading. To get a better comparison you need to tease out the actual specific turnover and passing data. From 82 games... Goran Dragic - Passing Stats - http://www.82games.com/1213/12PHO2.HTM Total Assists - 60 Passing TO's - 8 Assists/Bad Pass - 7.5 Passing Rating - 11.1 Jeremy Lin - Passing Stats - http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU2.HTM Total Assists - 45 Passing TO's - 5 Assists/Bad Pass - 9.0 Passing Rating - 16.8 So, when you look exclusively at passing, Lin makes FEWER bad passes. What about Dragic vs Lin's ball handling? Goran Dragic - Turnovers and Ball Handling Offensive Fouls - 1 Bad Passes - 8 Ball Handling Turnovers - 9 Other Turnovers - 0 Hands Rating - 22.0 Jeremy Lin - Turnovers and Ball Handling Offensive Fouls - 1 Bad Passes - 8 Ball Handling Turnovers - 12 Other Turnovers - 0 Hands Rating - 28.4 Wow. When you look at actual turnovers based upon actual handling AND passing, Lin actually has been handling the ball better this season... You already admit Lin is a better Rebounder. The stats confirm this. Dragic - 8.5 rebounding rating Lin - 12.8 rebound rating However, Lin is also better at... FT shooting Dragic - 74.4% Lin - 86% Blocks Dragic - 0.5 block rating Lin - 1.3 block rating Steals Dragic - 0.59 steals/10 mins Lin - 0.67 steals/10 mins And let's not forget that Lin is also a superior defender than Dragic (per Synergy Sports) PPP Allowed Dragic - 0.8 (104th in the NBA) Lin - 0.71 (49th in the NBA) Lin defends EVERY defensive situation better than Dragic except Spot Up shooters. Lin vs Dragic (PPP allowed) Isolation - 0.27 vs 0.78 P&R Ball Handler - 0.74 vs 0.85 Post up - 0.25 vs 0.67 Spot Up - 0.96 vs 0.83 (Dragic edges out Lin here) I guess Dragic is better at sticking his hand in a guys face when he pulls up to shoot. So yes, Dragic is a better scorer. Dragic is NOT necessarily a better Point Guard if you consider Facilitation to be more important than personal scoring efficiency, or if you care about the ability to Defend, or you are interested in Ball Handling. In other words, if you want a SHOOTING GUARD. Incorrect. Not all PG's do well in the D'Antoni system because it REQUIRES a PG with good decision making and excellent court vision. It's FREE FLOWING because it allows SMART PG's with GOOD passing and high BBIQ to maximize their abilities. The parade of Point Guards that did NOT excel in D'Antoni's offense is longer than you would think. Yes, the pace *can* be faster, but did you know that Woodson's pace of possessions was only ONE possession slower than during Linsanity? (98 vs 97 possessions per game). Of course, maybe you're looking at all those stats and saying, "Small sample!" Well yeah, except last year... Passing Rating Dragic - 10.2 Lin - 13.8 Rebound Rating Dragic - 10.2 Lin - 11.4 Block Rating Dragic - 0.8 Lin - 1.2 Turnover/Ball Handling Rating Dragic - 19.0 Lin - 24.4 I guess Lin wasn't kidding when he said his main goals this off season were to work on Turnovers, Passing and Defense.... Yes, Dragic scores points. He shot better last year, he's still shooting better this year. However, if you want someone who can PASS the ball, NOT turn it over as much, and has good court vision Lin seems to be the better choice. The neat thing is you CAN improve shooting. Quality time in the gym, do alot of reps and you're well on your way. Will Lin eventually shoot as well as Dragic? Who knows? However, I can tell you this... it's ALOT easier to improve a 3 point shot or mid range jump shot than it is to improve Court Vision. At least, easier than improving Court Vision or Turnovers after you've been playing for Professional Basketball for 9 (NINE) years... So, if Passing and Turnovers are the main job of a Point Guard, I think I'll still take back up PG Lin over Goran Dragic...
Ridiculous criticizing Lin leads to crybabies playing victim that it's race issue. It's not, he's playing terrible and the guys Morey let go are BALLING. I'm sure if Yao was a scrub instead of a great player and we let go two better centers(I don't even know how a team could mess that up if such a situation existed..)to sign him instead, I'm sure everything would be the same as it is in this thread. Race isn't nationality. Please learn English when posting on an English speaking board. sheesh.
Yah, except you gave up ONE better PG... that was Lowry, who WANTED to leave, and who was part of the sequence of trades that got us Harden. And feel free to read my post a few messages above about why Goran makes a spiffy Shooting guard, but for a Point Guard who can PASS and NOT turnover the ball (surprise, surprise... amazing how Numbers work!), I'll still take Lin.
You're throwing stats at me, but career stats are gonna be pretty inaccurate considering Lin only played in garbage time and Dragic got serious playing time under Nash in the playoffs even. Look at this season's stats thus far, that's all I need to see. Stats can be manipulated in all kinds of ways but fg% can only be manipulated if a person is only taking 3s, which isn't the case.
Those stats are for THIS season. His ACTUAL passes are NOT manipulated. His ACTUAL turnovers are just that, turnovers. His ACTUAL rebounding, steals, and Defense are what ACTUALLY happened. That's not manipulation, that's taking the direct RAW data. And I already conceded that Dragic is a better shooter, so your FG% argument is irrelevant. At MOST you can say, "It's a small sample size." ... in other words, Dragic may eventually turn out to be better but right now it is inconclusive. The data SO FAR says (36 Starts, 43 games) that Lin is a better passer AND ball handler AND better defender.
Last years data includes ACTUAL Passes. Time played is irrelevant. If you do 100 passes in garbage time, or 100 passes in starter minutes, the TO's are the TO's. Nice try though.
Oh, and since you brought them up, Lin played a total of 54 garbage minutes last year (prior to Linsanity). 54 minutes out of 1,219 minutes between last season and this season (943 minutes in 2011/12 and 276 minutes this year). Once again, nice try.
"Lin is a fraud compared to Lowry and Dragic. Play him off the bench as a scoring spark before it's too late." ~ jose Lin is a fraud and you still want to play him off the bench and expect him to be a spark for scoring with his horrendous shooting%? I would trade him for anything instead, you are so nice.
Jose is getting his arse wrapped in toilet papers then handed back to him. If I were you I would simply shut my mouth and start using my brain.
pcheung08 he can't play with Harden and I don't think Lin is a fraud NBA player, I think he's a fraud compared to his 'linsane' status. He might be good in a Delonte West role or something like that, where he's the 7th, at best 6th man of the team. Torocan I recognize Lin is a solid passer but you have to be more than just a solid passer to be a good PG, you need a jump shot too. I still think you can't put stats into it since I've seen Dragic make passes both with the Rockets and Suns that Lin can't. Also I think since Dragic and Lowry are both different, they're comparable, Dragic is better offensively, Lowry is better defensively but plays slower. Both > Lin Only passes I see Lin do better are long range no looks.
If you look at the beginning of the thread there was an overwhelming amount of people in support of the view I have, right now you guys are just hurt your hero is getting exposed and vehemently defend him. everyone else with my position has moved on cause we're stuck with this fraud.
What do you even determine as garbage time? Lin was garbage in garbage time during his 29 GP at GS. He averaged 9.8 minutes, so I would assume 99% of that was garbage time, and if it wasn't then he was in for very short spurts. Linsanity will never happen again. He's a backup combo guard, not a starting PG in this league.
Rajon Rondo is awesome, but for him to be successful he needs to be the ball handler at all times. And I think him not being able to shoot is a myth, look at what he did to the Heat last season. Almost single handledly beat them mostly through long 3s.
first " show me some stats to prove i'm wrong" then" who care, those stats doesn't mean anything , i trust my own eye only"
