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Jeremy Lin is a joke!!!!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Dei, Nov 12, 2012.

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Is Jeremy Lin a joke?

  1. Yes :)

    321 vote(s)
    42.3%
  2. No :(

    437 vote(s)
    57.7%
  1. Pukimonster

    Pukimonster Member

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    TO's and picking up his dribble are legit criticisms. I'd be most worried about TO's since I haven't seen much improvement since NY.

    Inconsistency is legit but blown out of proportion because everyone not named Harden has taken stretches of games off. T Jones disappeared for a week last month, Parsons had 1/11 shooting games playing his usual 40 mins. If Beverley's jumper is off he's practically invisible on offense yet he'll keep chucking from the arc because he can't do anything else. Lin is inconsistent but people blow it up by putting him under a microscope since they're so vested in arguing on this board.

    The whole defense thing is overblown. He's not an elite defender like Rubio and he's not a dominant 1 on 1 defender like Beverley but his defense isn't terrible. Him and Beverley actually have the same defensive rating for the season.

    The low bball IQ thing is something I only hear from a few people on this board on account of him jumping in the air or shooting early in the clock. Ignoring the fact he knows how to make the right decision off the pnr and lead the break. Spinning bigs around on the break, dishing to bigs after seeing mismatches, confusing defenders with different looks to get to the hole - those are all signs of high bball IQ. You look at that T-Wovles game last week - Lin was forcing switches to get Barea on D-Mo so he could dish to him. That's high IQ.

    Offensively he's got one of the best TS% in the league at the 1 spot because of his attacking game, which seems to be underappreciated here because Harden's attacking game is better and taken for granted. The guy's skillset has him living in the paint but he's camped beyond the arc to create space. Contrast with 1's like Beverley who are allergic to the paint. Being able to get in the paint at will is valuable and one of my favorite things to see is when Harden attacks and kicks back out, the ball is swung around the arc to Lin who penetrates from the weakside confusing the defense. Or vice versa. Very few teams can give looks like that.

    The guy's not an all-star, his game has holes, and he's not worth $15 mil, but he's far from a scrub and he contributes enough regularly to help the team win. Saying he should be demoted to D League and replaced by Canaan, a rook who hasn't even shown he's comfortable at the NBA level yet is dumb.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Texanasiafan

    Texanasiafan Member

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    Please stop living in fantasy and lies.

    Below is the comparison of Lin vs Bev 3 PT shooting for the season for each month.

    In Nov, Lin's best hot shooting month this season, he was shooting almost the same as Bev on 3PT.

    Dec, they both suck, Bev was worse than Lin.

    Jan, Lin's worst month of the season, Bev back to about his season average.

    Feb & March, Bev was clearly better than Lin by a large margin.

    Numbers never lie.


    overall NOV DEC JAN FEB MAR

    Lin 0.332 0.368 0.318 0.262 0.379 0.281

    Bev 0.358 0.366 0.258 0.353 0.4 0.382
     
  3. Pukimonster

    Pukimonster Member

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    That's fair

    My point is there's a difference between signing someone as a roleplayer and changing their role after they're signed. I don't think Asik or Lin signed their contracts thinking they'd be coming off the bench in 2014.

    Anyway it doesn't matter. I think it's pretty clear by now that Harden and Dwight are the franchise core, and every one else on the roster are assets. They got room for one more max contract player and it's not gonna be Asik or Lin anyway.
     
  4. Gumblin

    Gumblin Member

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    Lin isn't as great as some of his fanbase thinks. But, he also isn't as bad as some think either.
     
  5. FTW Rockets FTW

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    The only month Lin shot above 50% from 3 point land was in October when he got 2/2 3's vs Charlotte.

    It took just 10 games for Lin's 3P % to drop below 50% and it's gone downhill since.

    Great sample size you have there.
     
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    Lin is treated exactly the same and held to the same standard as every other role player in this board's history. No different. The reason it appears he gets unfair treatment is because the Lin fans come here and CHOOSE to put him under the microscope. They choose to make OUTRAGEOUS claims about his talent level and then get upset at those who put them in their place.

    If the fanaticism didn't exist, neither would the perception of said "microscope".

    His defense isn't terrible, but it isn't good, and it goes hand and hand with his BBIQ which is what I am referring too. He helps on defense when he is not supposed to and he has trouble knowing where the open man is, often double closing out with another Rocket, leaving a third player open. It is a problem.

    Unfortunately his scoring efficiently is completely negated by his turnovers.

    On a points per possession basis, Beverley is out performing Lin individually. (1.09 vs 1.02). Why? Because Lin is turning it over at one of the worst rates in the league. He is bottom five among guards who play regularly.

    So his defense is mediocre, his offense is mediocre, and he is being paid alot of money. It is the logical target for criticism by the fans.

    Look when Lin goes out and plays terrible consistently, there is a legitimate case to be made to see what we have Cannan.
     
  7. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Considering the starting point guard's job is to shoot three pointers and play defense, it's a very fair comparison. It's largely why Beverley is the starter and Lin is the backup but don't let reality deter your LOFness.

    Lin 3pt%

    2012: .320
    2013: .339
    2014: .332

    Beverley 3pt%

    2013: .375
    2014: .358
     
  8. tkrieger

    tkrieger Member

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    This might be the case in the Rockets' offensive scheme, but this isn't the primary job for a point guard in a normal offense… This hits at the core of Lin's problem with the Rockets: Lin makes plays and distributes off his midrange game. He was never a good enough three-pt. shooter to excel as a "point guard" in the Rockets' current offensive system.

    To give you an idea, when the Rockets were playing the Clippers earlier this season, listening to the Clips broadcast, Lin missed a typical "catch-and-shoot" three attempt, Clips commentator Michael Smith then said "That's not his game." Yet in our offense, this appears to be Lin's primary task.

    Unless Lin is allowed to perform as a classic point guard, I just don't see things panning out for Lin with the Rockets.
     
  9. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    It's been the primary job of the starting PG on most of the championship teams in the last 20 or so years.
     
  10. Honeybager81

    Honeybager81 Member

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  11. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Wasn't the last PG to win the championship Rondo with the Celtics Big 3? After that, it's been Chalmers, Barea, and Fisher/Farmar. Really the only teams have won where the PG plays a significant role, though it must also be noted that in the last 10 years, Spurs have made it to the finals 4 times. Either way, on a championship caliber team, rarely does PG actually take point. You have wings usually that dictate the offense.
     
  12. zawa

    zawa Member

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    Basketball IQ can be fixed, such as overhelping another person or choosing when to take shots etc. It just takes a good coach to tell the player and instate it in his mind what he is meant to do and what he should do. I'm pretty sure it is not hard for Lin to stop overhelping one pass away if McHale simply told him to stop.
     
  13. Razsan

    Razsan Member

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    Seriously, I see Lin being blamed for having a low BBall IQ...Watch the D for instance. As a team, there is very little cohesion and rotations are poor. That's NOT all Lin's fault. On Offense, I see him blamed for picking up his dribble and jumping in the air with no place to pass. I ALSO see 4 guys standing around doing very little. Watch the Clippers, when Paul penetrates, the bigs are constantly moving. Again, not just Lin's fault. As a team, we've grown to be TOO dependent on Harden and Howard making a play. Fortunately, they'r great players but when they're off we struggle.
     
  14. Pukimonster

    Pukimonster Member

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    Pretty much, Celtics, Spurs, and Detroit ran the offense through their 1. Everyone else ran it through their wings or bigs. Miami's a special case with Lebron playing the 1 because Chalmers sucks.

    Most of those rings are the Bulls and Lakers running the triangle so the system is just as important as who dominates the ball. To win you need different looks anyway.
     
  15. pwnyxpress

    pwnyxpress Member

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    There's probably some truth to this. I remember an interview with either McHale or Morey, early on this season, where they said Lin's help defense was really good and that they encouraged it. I don't think it's a stretch then to say that the coaching staff instills the need to do more help defense.
     
  16. guanwangzhe

    guanwangzhe Member

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    Why are you only comparing 3 point % shooting? I was talking about should measure the total shooting record and every aspect ratio as whole.
     
  17. guanwangzhe

    guanwangzhe Member

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    I was talking about we should measure the total shooting record, not just 3 point shooting % and every aspect ratio for the PG as whole.
     
  18. Pukimonster

    Pukimonster Member

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    If you look at True Shooting %, Lin is in the top 10 for PG's because of his attacking game and being able to get to the line.

    In terms of PER though, both Lin and Beverley are below the league average. Beverley's PER is lower than Lin's.

    But Bev gets more spin because it's 5 guys 1 ball and they need their 1 to camp the arc, play D, and get boards more than they need him to make plays.
     
  19. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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  20. Dei

    Dei Member

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    Nice try but that doesn't negate the fact you were implying the sample size on Lin's games was already enough to say that a team with him as the first option won't be lottery bound on the basis that it's slightly more than the sample size for Beverley in your last post.

    Just say you got carried away trying to be sarcastic again.
     

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