The lead lob isn't effective because if you notice whenever Yao gets fronted, whoever is guarding on the weakside baseline will sneak into the lane (often times for more than 3 seconds, damnit!!!) so Yao in essence has a double on him. You lead him too far and either the pass gets picked or they'll whistle Yao for a loose ball or charging foul. Pick & roll's a good combat to this fronting defense I've been seeing lately.
I think we actually do your first suggestion RF. Maybe not enough but I think we do something very similiar to what you suggested. Anyone?
Totally agree, the only problem right now is that we don't use that many options in a PnR situation this season. I still remember some of the PnRs from last year, between Steve and Yao, and I remembered that 3 Yao sank after a PnR. Look at JS and Malone, Nash and Norwinzki, we definitely to embed more variation, given that Yao got his shooting touch back recently.
The PNR is a good counter to the fronting, but to make full use of it, we've got to get much better at executing it. When the guard comes off the pick, he needs to first look to attack the rim, shoot himself, or pass off to Yao...the last option should be to make a crosscourt pass to another perimeter player. The only players that seem to be able to do this consistently are TMac and Barry, and I'm not even talking about MAKING the shot, just taking advantage of what the PNR does, creating openings. It seems as though Yao has the best chemistry with Barry, who makes a point of seeking him out, then TMac. It's been said repeatedly here, but it is indeed true that the chem between Sura and Yao is horrendous. However, I don't buy that Sura is purposely not passing to Yao, he's just more of natural 2 (has been his entire career) who looks for his own opportunities first.
You know the great thing? We still haven't peaked yet and are still getting better so our team has tons of upside even still. I'm glad our offense is finally evolving.
I don't quite understand this reasoning. Defending the post by fronting and defending the PnR are two separate things. When they front the post, they don't lose anything to the PnR. i.e., they are not out of position. When Yao gets out of the post and goes set a pick, they would just defend that like they normally would. Our PnR might kill them but that has nothing to do with us using the post or not. If we give up the post because of their fronting, they can keep doing it all game long. Again, I like the PnR, but I wish we can do many more different things better.
I mentioned this in my 1st post, we need to clear the weak side and we actually are doing that better this year. If they cheat outright and double team Yao, there is no need to force the ball in, simply find the open man. What I dread is that when the opponent plays Yao with one man and that man fronts and we give up on the play. We do not get an advantage anywhere else. That is bad BB.
It's not about whether they are worse off defensively in defending the PnR because they are fronting, though many could argue they are - interior defender is in worse position to stop the guard from dribble pentration, etc. It's about the PnR being effective enough to cause them to say, maybe if we don't front, they won't PnR. Maybe we've got a better chance actually forcing the ball into Yao for post moves than forcing them to do something else, which they are really effective at. Just as them fronting can cause us to go to PnR, our PnR can cause them to stop fronting.
Van Gundy watches tape... knows what he is doing and has them work on this in practice... He gave a simplistic answer and he has thought out the best solutions within our system... In time I believe we will see continued improvement in how we handle Yao being fronted. At this time he is not quick enough and agile enough to get that lob off the front defense. The PnR has been a better solution of getting that guy off Yao and moving the ball to an open spot
Like PnR, there are many other options to counter various defensive schems, it all comes down to execution. Let's freeze the picture with Yao's defender fronting him. What we see is a defender hanging around towards Yao from the other side, who is guarding our player at the weak side baseline. If we can move that defender further from Yao, then we can lob. How to do that? Just set up a movng screen between the two players on the weak side, that usually will draw the defenders' attention away since the ball could quickly swim to that side to get an open shot. Most of the time, I just say our player stationed at the corner, wating for his defender to double Yao, so he can get an open shot. All in all, we need to mix up, execute well. It just takes time to develop the cohenrence for the execution.
If they front, I say send T-Mac right at Yao. The guy fronting Yao is gonna be forced to make decision. Either let T-Mac go baseline for the nasty layup or cut him off. If he cuts him off Yao has already sealed the lane for a dunk. If they help weak side on Yao T-Mac can find an open three every time. Sura is equally as good at taking the baseline. If they front, they are basically picking themselves. So I say use it to our advantage.
Man, this thread is tailor made for heyP. Actual Xs and Os talk! If Yao doesn't learn how to handle lob passes, he's going to get fronted on a regular basis. That's the textbook way to defeat that defense, and Yao's size should work to his advantage in that situation.
Second that. Reading the original post, my first thought was, "Well, isn't this exactly what the triangle is designed for?"
you are right,....this is classic HP stuff.....a shame he doesnt come here anymore. as for the lob....I think this is something they are working on when they have time to practice (which isnt much by all accounts)....but Ive seen them try a lob when Yao is fronted more often in the last few games than they ahve done all season. check the highlights for this last game against PHI....there is a successful lob from Tmac , and IIRC, at least one more that I didnt clip since it didnt result in a score... it may not seem like much, but just knowing they are working it into their arsenal should be encouraging .
Your whole post is very good. I agree with all of it. The thing about the lob is you only need to do it successfully twice in a game and slam it home. I guarantee the opponent will abandon the fronting very quickly.
heyp isn't the only one forget the Lob, Yao needs to take the front, let them have and flip the sucker on the defender...ie let them front and then Yao needs to seal them from the paint side, then we have two options 1. reverse the ball from wing to top and the should be able to feed the ball to Yao who has a great seal on his defender from this angle 2. Yao keeps his seal and we have the weakside corner player hit the foul line, the wing pass to them and they have a superb passing angle to Yao or if the player defender collapses they can get a nice foul line jumper... in past season Cato and Mo used to do this to beat the Yao fronts, i'm sure R2K has this clipped somewhere from past seasons in short, forget the lob, Yao should let them front and use it to seal the defender on the other side such that Yao is now between the defender and basket assuming the team mates can reverse the ball to pass it to him or get it to a player at the foul line to feed to Yao
