There are clearly a number of writers who think his numbers are enhanced due to drugs and they didn't vote him in because of that. I think they're wrong but that's the main reason he didn't get a higher percentage on his first try. That's what I was talking about.
Not one damn player who spent the majority of his career with the Astros. Ryan being the only long-time Stro that made the HOF as a player and he only set the record for strikeouts and no-hitter. Not to mention 300 wins and the most awesome beatdown in MLB history. I was trying to make the counterpoint to him that the Astros are nothing to the media. In fairness its partly because the Astros sucked for the vast majority of those years, but its still ridiculous that a team with 40+ years doesn't have a single cap in the Hall.
Is there an Astro player you'd like to make an argument for to be in the HOF that you think the media has unfairly excluded?
Jim Wynn may have an argument, but I don't really think it's any East Coast bias that kept him out. I really don't see a big "East Coast bias" in the HoF voting. Jim Freaking Rice couldn't get in for like ever for crying out loud.
HAHA, a buddy of mine used always tell me how Holt was the next "BIG" thing in baseball. He kept on telling me Holt was a combo between Ryan's velocity and Maddux's control. After every rough start he had, all I heard was that he just needed to adjust to NL hitters lol.
Who's already been debated and who will likely get in at some point. As I mentioned Ric, Bagwell didn't reach any of the milestones that are usually required for first ballot election of hitters and that hurt him imo, probably more than the steroid issue. He did get a fair amount though.
Turns out he just sucked...bad. You have to wonder...if Holt had pitched in 1998, would the Astros have won 102 games?
he was a tough luck pitcher. he had a 3.52 ERA and pitched over 200 innings in 1997...but was only 8-12. for whatever reason, they had a difficult time taking advantage of his performance that season. his ERA blew up when they moved to MMP...just like everyone else on that staff, really.
Maybe it's the homer in me but Jose Cruz was a hell of a damn good player and he never got the time of day from the media when it comes to the Hall. Anyone who watched him play knows that if he'd played on a higher profile team like the Cubs in that type of offensive ballpark he'd be much more highly considered by the media and non-Astros fans in general. Hell if Jim Rice, playing at Fenway his whole career, is a Hall of Famer then so is Cheo.
I loved watching cruz at the astrodome and that is personally one of my earliest memories of baseball. He was great but probably not HOF. If I was going to choose( homerism style)someone from childhood, I would say there was a moment there where mike scott owned. He was better than nolan for a moment there. I want to say against the giants that one series he pitched ahead of nolan. But then we need to let biggio in first anyway. I may agree that biggio could go, but that's shakey too.. For bagwell though? no way. Remember we are talking kirby puckett, mickey mantle, willie mays.. it's not the 'hall of solid' it's the hall of fame. If you let bagwell in you might as well call yourself a homer and let rodrick rhodes into the hall of fame for shutting down jordan. then you need to let terry puhl in for having a cool name. It's a slippery slope to electing jose lima , purvis short and morganna the kissing bandit ... ... 'chaos theory' has taken full effect. I believe bagwell was an all star 4 times. I believe bagwell had 2 career postseason home runs. Come on houston I think our better bet is *maybe* biggio. Still though say it out loud gary carter, johnny bench, jackie robinson, craig biggio.. um even then it doesn't sound right. So biggio doesnt make the cut either I guess? oh well.. JVG says ming should be HOF. As much as I love yao that's out there too.
Not really. Of course I grew up in the Bagwell/Biggio era, so I didn't see those guys that came before them. Cesar Cedeno and Jimmy Wynn are the only somewhat close ones I can think of. Some pitchers have had awesome careers in Houston and ended up having their careers cut short which has cost them any chance at HOF careers.
Kirby Puckett? Bagwell's numbers go all "Nobody puts baby in a corner" Patrick Swayze on Puckett's numbers. If Kirby Pucket - Kirby Puckett!! - is your standard for the Hall of Fame, then Bagwell then is like an uber-Hall of Famer. Did you just compare Bagwell to Roderick Rhodes? Gary Carter? Good lord, man - you should really spend a day or 50 hanging out on baseball-reference, or something. The BBWAA is an unpredictably insane group, so I take nothing for granted - but Biggio is very likely a first ballot HoF'er. And I'd argue Bagwell has a *much* better case than Biggio. Do you realize Bagwell is pretty easily the second greatest NL first baseman of all-time?
