Are you arguing that less offense is NOT expected from a catcher? Do you think Brad Ausmus would have been in the league as long as he was if played a really good first base?
It's an opinion. It's not a claim. I certainly can't prove it up with an equation. I believe that it helps the legacy of ANY player to have played, particularly in his prime, for the New York Yankees. The end.
Erm, no not at all. Just trying to understand what in the hell your point was. It's really simple: one is better (by a smidge) at the plate. The other is better (by a freaking mountain RANGE) at EVERY OTHER aspect of the game. One player has TWO tools, the other has FIVE tools. Bagwell for the win. Get it?
You misunderstand my argument. Jeff Bagwell was a better player than Mike Piazza. If I have somehow misrepresented my position on the two players, I apologize. Now...Piazza put his production up as a catcher and Bagwell put up his production as a first baseman. For a Hall of Fame argument that means a whole lot. NOT AN ARGUMENT ABOUT WHO WAS BETTER.
Piazza gets in because, whether fair or not, he will get compared to other catchers already in the hall and his time period. He was the best offensive catcher of his time, his defensive will get overlooked due to his numbers.
And that's the part I called, "ridiculous." When you're looking at 2 players careers....and you're saying one is clearly better than the other.....but that doesn't really matter to Hall of Fame voters...yeah, that's ridiculous. I'm not arguing you're wrong in saying that's the state of things...i'm arguing that the state of things is silly.
piazza deserves to get in. but if he gets in on first ballot, while leaving out a player like bagwell on first ballot, that's crazy. we'll see where all the "moral high ground" writers are if piazza gets in on first ballot while trumpeting "suspicions" about bagwell in his first go-round.
You are absolutely right: I completely misunderstood where you were coming from. Because of who was playing on the Astros, I spent a lot of time a few years ago digging into the 1B and 2B that are actually in the Hall, as well as guys like McGwire, Alomar, etc. who had potentially HoF careers more recently. I drew a lot of conclusions from that. But, I *haven't* spent much time looking at Catchers in the Hall, since we've generally had great defensive catchers here but never any great "all-time" catchers. So, I can't speak to your point about Hall-of-Fame discussion based on position beyond this: I see where you're coming from. Thanks for clarifying; my bad for missing you.
Yea agree but I fear that is exactly what will happen. Actually, think if Baggy doesn't get in with Biggio, it might take a while for him to get in with all the BIG names coming up after 2013.
Tell that to the people who think Ozzie Smith was a just first ballot hall of famer but Fred McGriff, Keith Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Edgar Martinez aren't going to get in. Position matters.
I completely agree with this post, and to further defend Dan Graziano, he did indicate he would not vote for Mike Piazza.
AMEN! J and I started watching Ken Burns' "The Tenth Inning" this morning...can't. freaking. wait. Little league registration already started
lolthisisafunnyposti'drepyouifihadn'tdoneitsorecently...don't be out, fun and stimulating conversation is fun and stimulating! Here here!
