Signing Lee was a good move. It would've been even better if we were in contention. By signing Lee the Astros addressed their lack of hitting by someone not named Lance Berkman. Unfortunately we were more than one piece from contending. You're probably right, Uncle Drayton pulled the strings behind the scenes on Purpura, and that meddling was one of the main reasons that Hunsicker left.
blah blah blah, Ric, I know you are in this to prove you are right because you are always right, and a gosh darned genius, no matter what it means (including, without limitation, telling us how valuable leadership is then subsequently telling us it is meaningless - based on a legit change of heart, lol.) , but anyway, I willl set you up with a little story. My folks had Oilers season tix from about middle school to high school in the early to mid 90's. Accordingly I went to every game. Why? because if not for Mattress Mac or Randalls or who the F-k ever, buying up night game tix, such things were off the table (it was either KTRH, or, sadly, even earlir, KODA). Fortunately I had a good set of kinfolk and was able to watch this spectacle in person. Now, when I grew up and went away to school (to an elite east coast institution, of course..nothing but the best for me, right?) I was amazed when the local, very suburbanized team...was on local TV....EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND, without fail. It did not take Bob Allen or whoever making a personalized appeal to get the game on his/her local affiliate by selling all tickets. It was simply accepted that said team or teams (in comparably sized, or often, much smalller markets) would sell out to die-hards every weekend, despite the lack of bells, whistles, conveniences, etc on their home turf. This experience corroborated a small portion of the vast evidence as to the overal limp-dickness of H-town sports fans compared to the rest, for better or for worse. Hell, why do you think we are on "Clutchfans.net" right now, because H-town fans are diehards? LOLOinfinity. Now I know you have a very awesome contrary opinion, so please post so we can get into a 45-post long set of loggerheads.
I'll own up to this, you're right, someone started a 1991 so that's where I started. I could have just gone to wikipedia, drayton bought them in 93. that's pretty good. fifth in the majors, definitely above average. according to the numbers he's been a good owner. can't argue with the numbers.
That was me. I know Drayton bought the club in '93 (well, I thought it was '92 off the top of my head), but to my sad mind I always see this now-ended era beginning with Bagwell's (and several others I believe) rookie year. Mebbe Harnish was 92. Wow, I looked it up--here are the "debuts" the Astros trotted out in 1991 (various levels of PT, of course): Jeff Bagwell Ryan Bowen Gary Cooper Tony Eusebio Chris Gardner Jeff Juden Darryl Kile Kenny Lofton Andy Mota Scott Servais Jose Tolentino Brian Williams Finley and Harnish were in their 3rd year only (having arrived from Baltimore). Andujar Cedeno, Luis Gonzales and Mike Simms were also rookies, having had only a "cup of coffee" in 1990.
I believe that the Dome suffered from a configuration problem more than anything else as it was primarily a baseball venue. The last modification to accommodate Bottom-Line Bud saw them removing the original scoreboard in order to up the seating capacity for the Oilers. And yes, Oilers games were telecast on NBC which carried the AFC games back then. CBS carried the NFC games while ABC carried Monday Night Football. Ric 's recollections are dead on about their not selling out before the 72 hour deadline in order to lift the local TV blackout but having the games actually sell out because Randalls or others eventually bought up all the tickets.
Randall's very rarely had to actually buy the tickets...they just guaranteed to buy them before game time if they didn't sell otherwise.
Almost always unless it was a night game. Which was usually one home appearance on Sunday night football, one home appearance on MNF per season, plus the rare Saturday night game in the late season from about 1988-1993 So about 2-3 home games per year were not blacked out. I can almost name each pre-blackout sell out by season if I went over it game by game.
That's certainly not what I remember, Sam. Again...by the Oilers own report they were claiming they sold at 110% capacity during the 8 year period leading up to 1994. They used that to suggest that they needed a new stadium with MORE seats.
hell, texan games were full of empty stands at the end of the season before last. but 2-14 will do that. I really don't understand the debate, this isn't a rabid sports town. too many dynamics, southern city, people have many other options, transplant city.
sam, selling a game out by an arbitrary deadline is in no way indicative of how rabid a fan base is - it's meaningless. if, as you claimed, you attended oiler games during one of their heydays (the early 90's), or even lived in the city during one of their heydays, then you know damn well that people were passionate about this team. my family had 4 season tickets from 1978 to 1990. i attended, with few exceptions, every single home game during that stretch. after '90, i routinely attended games since i was going to school 80 minutes away and, well, i was lucky enough to be provided a nice discretionary income. so i attended virtually any and every big game you can name during the pardee era, too. when the oilers put a product on the field worthy of our attention (78-80; 87-93), the dome was never NOT sold out, and i mean AIS, not tickets sold. adams' entire platform for demanding a new stadium was based on the dome's inability to house the demand for tickets. this is broken down specifically in pirkle's book (which i don't have access to here at work but here's a quote he gave us when we interviewed him: "The Houston fan had gotten a black eye nationally thanks to news outlets like ESPN and the like. Houston fans were called bad fans and the Oilers were portrayed as leaving because the Houston fan was a bad fan, and that wasn't true."), but MM is certainly in the ballpark when he talks about the overcapacity. we're not making this **** up - people were stuffed into that stadium. i also videotaped games all thru the late 80s and early 90s and can you tell you FOR A FACT that your response to buck’s question about the # of blackouts (Almost always unless it was a night game) is total, unequivocal bull****. plain and simple. it was certainly true when they sucked; games never sold out (and for good reason). but when they were good, demand was through the roof. go ahead; search ebay for oiler games and you’ll see no shortage of sunday afternoon home games recorded here on houston affiliates with every single seat filled.
I wrote a paper in technical writing at Baylor regarding the proposal for a new multi-purpose football/basketball stadium for downtown Houston. The proposal that Adams made. I called the Oilers and asked for any information they could provide me. They sent me the report that Coopers & Lybrand prepared on the new stadium. The first part of it detailed the need for a new stadium. I don't have a copy of that report any more...or if I do, I can't find it. But I remember SPECIFICALLY the 110% number over the course of the 8 years leading up to that report (which I guess would have been in 1994 or 1995). The report addressed the fact that, though they didn't always meet the 72 hour requirement, that walk up sales in Houston were particularly strong...and that by game time, there were people in those seats. I remember people standing in the catwalks at games. SRO seats being sold. And that place was loud as hell for Oiler games when they were competitive. The idea that nearly every game was blacked out is not even close to my recollection of it.
If I recall correctly (now I am only 30 so I was young when I watched the Oilers), there were a decent amount of games blacked out. Not a lot of them, but there were at least one or two per season...positive about that. There was also the threat of blackout almost every game, but usually they ended up selling out somehow
My recollection was that even when they were good, there were at least 3 or 4 games per year that we couldn't see because they didn't meet the 72 hour deadline. They may have sold out, but many fans couldn't watch the team. Contrast that to teams like Cleveland, KC, Denver, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, NY Giants, Dallas, Redskins and Green Bay (most of whom have multiple pro teams. Green Bay and Buffalo do not have 3 pro franchises but they also draw from a much smaller population pool)
Looks like we have a good old fashioned "black is white" argument from Ric. Sure, Houston sports fans were as passionate as in Bears fans or Packer fans or Redskins fans or Bills fans or Browns fans. We can't let little things like selling out the stadium in advance be germane to the discussion about stadium attendance? Right? Totally illogical. The Washington Redskins have sold out every game since 1968 - you know how many bad teams and bad games that entails? The Jets are on TV every weekend. You know how bad some of those teams have been? The Bears are on every weekend. Green Bay I bet has a multi-decade non blackout streak. That is just a few examples off the top of my head. Ric, using inflammotory language and being a giant douche does not make up for the fact that you are lying on this point - nd your "eBay challenge" is a total piece of sh-t argument, since you are either being intetionally deceptive (more likely) or are too dumb to comprehend the blackout policy (less likely) OF COURSE you can find tapes of locally blacked out Oiler home games on ebay - because the games were broadcast outside the blackout radius. When the Kansas City chiefs played a day game in Houston - the game was broadcast in Kansas City - among millions and millions of other TV sets across the country. This does not prove a single freaking solitary thing as to localized blackouts. Why don't you just name home day games that were sold out from 1987-1996 - since you like to lecture people about burdens of proof, i am putting it on you. 0-5 is the likely outcome. I think I remember one vs. the Cowboys, but that's it.
your recollection is wrong. you've just listed some of the most storied franchise in nfl history, which deep, rich histories of prolonged success. denver, buffalo and kansas city (both afl transplants with houston) are the only teams among that group that you can fairly stand next to houston and all three have extensive histories of consistent success and super bowl appearences. off the top of my head... 11 between them, i believe. the oiler/houston fan dynamic is really bizarre. the team made it very hard to stay loyal. it's owner was a loser, many of his hires were busts, they made consistently poor personnel decision and, most damning of all, they were, FAR more often than not, bad, and oftimes, historically bad. there were stretches during the ealry 70 and early 80s that are among the worst in the entire history of the NFL. here are some snippets from our dream season project:
