Exactly right--these things are cyclical. The Rockets were third fiddle because they were mediocre (and the Texans were getting a pass for a few years being new and all). The Astros' and Texans' days are coming if they don't get things going.
Once again: Beltran and Alou were *not* "cheap". If you value facts as much as you say you do, you might want to investigate some of them before repeating this old, tired, oft-disproven mantra. (pennypinch pennypinch cheap! cheap! cheap! b****alot pinchalittlemore)
you're right, I really don't argue that either. my argument from the jump is that alot of his moves are more marketing. he will keep the stars that sell more tickets, that's all I started off with, you get into a debate and drop a few or 100 posts and some jerk finds the word cheap and tries make a fool of you.
I'm having fun at the expense of your posts. It's awfully juvenile; sorry. Let me cut the crap and ask the question: Are you telling us McLane doesn't try to win? And by the way, how on earth is it harder to make the playoffs in basketball than in the baseball???? Or win a championship???? Earlier you said that 2 big men have won the last few NBA titles. Is it really that easy? Because one slugger or one stud pitcher won't win a division in baseball, much less bring home the title!
You look at this team and see what happens when it doesn't produce. When I look at this squad, with some aging veterans, depleted farm system, and limited payroll, it's going to be painful over the next several years. Yes we're drawing a ton of people to Minute Maid Park just like the Rockets did for several years after the playoffs. But that too will disapear because we as Houston fans have always been fickle. Even the Oilers, who almost everybody would say has always had the greatest support could barely sell out, in a small stadium, with a good team. I still remember the countless times Channel 11 had to buy several thousand tickets just so it could televise the games. I remember when they couldn't sell out playing against the Browns with Kosar, Webster Slaughter, Byner and those guys fighting for the division lead. That was insane. And the Oilers were the Number 1 franchise in the city?? Houston has historically been occupied by transplants. That may change in the future (or may have already changed - I haven't lived there for years).
I explained it in the last response to ric. we've gone round and round enough, I understand you were just having fun with my posts. its all good. you're not a jerk
Are we judging him on the kind of owner he might be tomorrow? Or the kind of owner he has been? I thought the discussion was about what we already know given track-record. I didn't realize it was about what this franchise might become. I kinda thought it was about what it was today relative to what it was before him. Which seems like a reasonable discussion when judging the worth of an owner. The point is...the team HAS produced. I'm 33 years old. Houston is a vastly different city than it was when I grew up here. It's grown up quite a bit too.
Which is an entirely different ball of wax. The next few years is a new kind of test for McLane, or several tests: --Can he find a new GM/Player Development tandem to build up the Astros again, perhaps to something better? Can he let them do their jobs enough to pull it off? --If rebuilding is chosen, can he weather a couple of bad (but improving) seasons without firing the GM who's building it and the manager, without freaking out and trading the farm (which is hopefully being restocked) or splashing another big free agent whose contract, in a few years will only sap away monies for the young talent you're developing now for your future? --Can he weather the decrease in attendance without complaining publicly about losing money or threatening to move the team? --How quickly can the Astros rebuild themselves into the force they were in the late 90s and early 2000s? All the joking and/or criticizing aside, however he and his personnel accomplished it, Drayton came in in 1992 (iirc) amidst the beginnings of a rebuilding/youth movement for the Astros. Gone were Hatcher, Glenn Davis, Scottie (due to injury), etc. Biggio, Bagwell, Caminiti, Harnisch, Finley, Gonzales, and soon Hampton and Kile were the future. They had nowhere to go but up once they committed to the youth movement: '91 was abysmal. McLane went out and got Drabek and Swindell, and there wasn't much fruit from it. But they built a great, great team. (No, it weren't the Yankees--but they captured the city for baseball for the first time ever, and they finally made it to the WS.) The next few years may not have as many wins as the late 90s, but I'll be watching intently.
He might complain about money, but he signed a 35 or 40 year lease commencing in 2000. I'm guessing that lease was drawn up pretty well from the county's viewpoint.
The farm system is certainly depleted and a major issue. But the team is anything but aging - all of its good players are young or in their primes. The aging ones suck right now anyway (Woody Williams, Biggio, Ausmus). And the payroll is consistently in the top third, so I'm not sure where the limited payroll issue comes from, unless that's an issue for every team except for NY and Boston.
yeah, i recognize the team can't snap its fingers and make 2007 disappear. at the same time, this isn't the cincinnati reds. 2 or three shrewd moves will have the astros back in contention. there're are a lot of teams that would murder for a foundation of berkman, lee, pence and oswalt. if they can find a CF who can lead-off effectively and play terrific defense up the middle and then land an above-average starting pitcher, they can win 80-85 games next year easily by filling in with burkes, wiggingtons, scotts, sampsons and backes. they can render this year, if they're smart moving forward, 2000 all over again. i'd have my eye on michael bourn and the situation in philly and go from there. and i'd use lidge as my trading chip for either the CF or SP.
I don't want this to be a payroll argument because I don't expect Houston to have a Yankees/Red Sox esque payroll. For the past 10 years, the Astros have consistently been around 12-16 2007 Team Total payroll New York Yankees $ 189,639,045 Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214 New York Mets $ 115,231,663 Los Angeles Angels $ 109,251,333 Chicago White Sox $ 108,671,833 Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524 Seattle Mariners $ 106,460,833 Chicago Cubs $ 99,670,332 Detroit Tigers $ 95,180,369 Baltimore Orioles $ 93,554,808 St. Louis Cardinals $ 90,286,823 San Francisco Giants $ 90,219,056 Philadelphia Phillies $ 89,428,213 Houston Astros $ 87,759,000
Or, are they going after Tori Hunter? IIRC, he's a Texas boy and might want to get close to home. He's going to cost over $10 mil/season. He certainly would add some more power to the lineup and fantastic CF defense.
What, at #11? Let's not act like they're bottom 10, either. Biggio? Regardless, isn't that how *every* team "jacks it up"--on two to four power guys? I don't believe even the Yankees are spending $10+ million on all 8 starters and all 5 SPs.
Are you reading that correctly? It's #14. That's not consistently in the Top 1/3. I was responding to his statement which is not true. 1997: 20th 1998: 15th 1999: 11th 2000: 18th 2001: 17th 2002: 14th 2003: 14th 2004: 12th 2005: 12th 2006: 8th 2007: 14th The avergae is what 15? That's right at average. What's our media market? 10-15? If Uncle Drayton does maintain a consistent payroll of #10, that's pretty good.
i hope not; he's having a fine year, but he'll be 33 next summer. this team needs to get better, yes, but also younger. they can't continue to sign guys who have 2-3 years left. plus, i can't imagine hunter settling for anything less than lee's deal, which makes him cost-prohibitive.
