i don't think there was any racism implied in evil beaver's post. Fact is, most people might not know know Collier was white because his sorry ass is never in the game. Worst....draft pick....ever. PS If Collier sucks in a forest, and no one sees, does anyone care?
Worst draft pick ever? How about Benoit Benjamin? Chris Washburn? Ever heard of those guys drafted at the top of the draft? I'd guess those picks are certainly a lot worse than Collier at 15. Right now, I'm just not sure whose minutes Collier can take. He's actually done very well in the league the few times he's been healthy, but what's the place for him on this team? Cato's going to get 20-25 minutes per game every night. When he goes to the bench, you're going to see a lot of frontcourts of EG and Kenny together, with the three guard lineup alongside them, or possibly Steve, Cat, and Oscar or Walt. Cato's played for the most part worthy of his 20-25 minutes per game. Eddie needs time on the floor to develop, and Kenny's proven to be worthy of 30-35 minutes per game. Add on to that the fact that Mo is soon to be back, and I'm not sure what Jason's role is on this team. Certainly, he can be of use against true centers, but other than that I'm not sure whose minutes at the 4 and 5 you can justify decreasing. BTW, something to those who think two injury-riddled seasons deem him a failure: do any of you remember how many comparisons people drew between Jason Collier and Austin Croshere the summer they were drafted? Croshere was a complete dud his first two seasons in the NBA. He was injured, slow, and basically considered what Collier is now. However, he came back for his third season with less weight, a better attitude, and was one of the biggest surprises in the NBA. By that offseason, he received a contract for seven years and 51 million. Don't give up hope yet.
And how many minutes per game? I guess it's personal taste, but I really like Croshere's game. He works hard, rebounds, can score from both the inside and perimeter... I honestly think he could have good numbers if Isiah would let him play more minutes. If he were on the trade market, I'd definitely try to swing a deal.
As long as RUDY is the coach, we have no need for a backup center. How many games has Cato proved that he belongs on the court, only to be benched for Moochie in the 2nd & 4th quarter? Rudy would rather run the 3 guard lineup in the 2nd & 4th quarter with no center. Why do we need a backup center? to hope that Cato gets in foul trouble, when Rudy only allows are starting center 17-24 minutes a game? Rudy seems to be in love with playing Moochie, Cat, Francis & KT. Everybody else can take a backseat to Rudys playing time choices. I cannot wait to see what happens next year when we have Taylor, KT & Griffin at PF - Cato, Willis (?), Collier & possible 1st round draft pick at Center - Walt, Rice, TM, Langhi & possible HIGH 1st round draft pick at SF - this does not even include Torres, who is probably being shafted the most by Rudys 3 game lineup. BOTTOM LINE< CD needs to dump the bench for a player (like when we received Francis - or attempted to get Stoudmaire).
16.6 minutes a game....and still over 7 million per... Let's not forget the intent of your comparison: Collier, in the 2003-2004 season, making $51 million over 7 years for 6 points, 3 boards and 1 assists a game....oops, more if he would only get the minutes. The thought is downright frightning! Come on Cat, I was one of your biggest defenders of your defending Collier, but even I have to admit the time for giving up on JC is quickly approaching.
Behad, My original point was to compare their games and how they were late bloomers, not to say that we should give Collier the same contract. The only reason I even mentioned Croshere's huge deal was that he had to do something productive for Indiana to think that highly of him. I'm not giving up on Collier as a player yet, because when healthy he's contributed well, but as I said earlier I'm just not sure what his role on this team would be. He may be better off going elsewhere.
Now I know Collier is in deep trouble as far as the Rockets go. Why do you feel he is out of favor? He seems to be healthy now.
Well, the problem is that you really can't justify limiting anyone's minutes up front. At the 4 and 5 sports combined, there are 96 minutes. If Cato keeps playing well, he's going to get 24 minutes per game. With Kenny consistently pulling down around 15 and 7, he's going to get at least 30 minutes as long as Mo is out. While Eddie can play some 3, he's definitely better suited for the 4 and 5 spots right now with his shotblocking and his ability to draw big men out of the lane. In order for him to properly develop, you need to pencil in at least 30 minutes for him at those two spots. There's 84 minutes of your 96 right there, and that's with Mo Taylor injured and it's not considering Willis, Morris, and Walt playing in spurts. The situation is even going to get more crowded when Mo returns. I think Collier can play when someone gets hurt, but right now I'm just not sure whose minutes you can justify decreasing to get Collier a consistent 15 minutes per game.
The Cat- I guess i can't make a Simpsons reference without you jumping on my ass.... I obviously know there are worse draft picks, worse players, etc. However, when the Rockets were working players out before that draft, I specifically remember saying to some friends how I despised Collier, and how overrated I thought he was in college. Well guess what? They go out and draft that stiff who has held nothing but an injured list spot throughout his career. He is clogging up the INJURED LIST! We could be putting a player on IR with Nintendo thumb, or Tennis elbow, who might ACTUALLY have a role with this team in the future....
We could be putting a player on IR with Nintendo thumb, or Tennis elbow, who might ACTUALLY have a role with this team in the future.... Who? Joel Pryzbilla and Jerome Moiso have sucked, and with them we wouldn't have had the pick to get Griffin. Etan Thomas was off the board. Desmond Mason and Quentin Richardson are not SF's, and we dont need a third shooting guard. Jamaal Magloire has been somewhat decent, but can you really blame the Rockets for missing him when he was practically the only player on the board that could be of value to them now? Yes, Turkoglu was also on the board at the time, but SF wasn't a primary need to be addressed at that time. Then, Steve, Cat, and Shandon were the nucleus of the team, and they played the 1 through 3 spots at the end of the game. Or should we blame Rudy for not calling Miss Cleo to find out that Shandon would suck, and Rice would get injured? Look at the players remaining at pick 15. When you look at the list and find players that would've at the time been a logical pick and have so far been decent players in the league, there's only one player that jumps out and that's Jamaal Magloire. Considering all the gems we've plucked in the past, I'd think it would be forgiveable that we missed a decent player (not even good, yet) once or twice.
Cat, there were other options available besides drafting Collier that year. We could of traded down again, and picked up Collier at the end of the 1st round, and probably picked up another future 1st rounder (in one of the deepest drafts in recent years).
