Japanese War shrine visit thread

It is simply not common sense.

I don't hear Thailand or Taiwan complaining. Probably because Thailand was Japan's ally and Taiwanese soldiers are also enshrined in Yasukuni? It is not common sense, but rather which side you were on.

You might rationalize Chinese people paying homage to Mao. But in the same way, Japanese don't go to Yasukuni JUST to pay homage to war criminals. They go there to pay homage to ALL Japanese soldiers and for all the sacrifices they made for their country. I don't understand how you can so easily make the exception for Chinese people worshipping criminals, but can neither understand nor accept the same judgment being made by Japanese.

Isn't that common sense?

 

Your killing is worse than my killing.

 

I am guessing in this case it would be your killing my people is worse then my people killing my people.

 

I missed this post.

I guess by now you probably have learned a little more about the Japanese war crimes against the Chinese. I tend to think if you were more attentive to the historical facts you wouldn't have come up with the above ridiculous claim.

The way you wrote your post makes it look like it was the Germans who performed biological tests (on Jews), and the Japanese killed the Chinese merely in the manner seen in conventional warfare. If so, that couldn't be more wrong.

During the WWII, Imperial Japanese Army special unit, Unit 731, operated a biological warfare research facility in Manchuria (Northeast of China) that carried out human experiments on POWs as well as civilians including preganant women. By conservative estimates, Unit 731 exposed at least 3000 victims to plague, anthrax, syphilis, and other agents in an attempt to develop and study the diseases. Victims were dissected live without anesthetics so the Japanese could observe the maximum effects. Others were subject to extreme physical conditions including high pressure, burn, freezing, x-ray, or centrifugal forces before they were tortured to death.

As far as I know, the Germans did develop and employ biological weapons in WWI, but no biological experiments were reported being done on Jews by the Germans in WWII. As another poster pointed out, nobody, not even the Nazi Germany, can possibly do worse than what the Imperial Japanese Army did in WWII in all recent warfares in terms of sheer brutality.

All those who are trying to downplay the Japanese atrocities, divert attention to other Chinese problems, or to make irrelevant jokes in this thread, need to think first if you really have to post here.

 

You don't hear or you never really listen? I have relatives in Taiwan. I have friends and colleagues from Taiwan and Thailand. They are also upset about it.

Chinese never opposed Japanese paying homage to fallen soldiers. They opposed those Japanese right wings sneaked those war criminals into that Shrine, against their own constitution, and worship those war criminals with all the others, and "forced" everyone visiting there to pay homage to war criminals AMONG others. Nobody in US dares to mention paying homage to Hitler AMONG ALL GERMAN SOLDIERS, but some of you feel the need to spin all you can, to dismiss Chinese' rights to even protest against war criminal worshiping. What a frigging joke for those claimed standing firm for humanity, freedom, justice, and democracy. I am wondering what have Chinese ever done to Americans in her 5000 years of history, to deserve this special treatment?! Just because of Korean War? Or, you are just alergic to the word "communist"?

 

30 million Chinese were not put in concentration camps and murdered in a sick and twisted way. It was less then 4 million. This is the exaggeration I'm talking about.

YOu want the Japanese to be guilty about 30 million. Frankly, I think that's B.S. Why do you want them to be so guilty? If you could make the number a billion, you would. Now you're saying 37 million. The exaggeration keeps on growing

 

How is it not "common sense"? The people most complaining are the Chinese and Koreans because they suffered the most atrocities under the leadership of the very people enshrined and worshipped at Yasukuni Shrine. People in Thailand and Taiwan didn't suffer the atrocities in nearly the extent so people there aren't going to complain as much. It seems "common sense" to me.

The other thing I think you seem to misunderstand is that Chinese are complaining about ordinary people visiting Yasukuni Shrine. AFAIK, the complaint has always taken place when the Prime Minister of Japan makes makes an official visit there as head of the Japanese govt. Its not just the fact that there are war criminals enshrined but also that the shrine itself has revisionist and atrocity denial enscriptions justifying Japan's behavior during WWII.

The fact that Yasukuni Shrine enshrines people that have the most responsibly for atrocities committed by Japan in WWII, the fact that the shrine officially exonerates Japan in its descriptions of the war, the fact that it is used as a rallying point by right-wing nationalist Japanese makes it highly problematic, to say the least, when the head of the Japanese govt decides too make official visits to the shrine.

 

WOW to your convoluted logic. Maybe the CURRENT Taiwanese government doesn't protest, but Taiwanese people certainly do.

This is a fresh one : http://www.chinapost.com.tw/detail.asp?ID=88169&GRP=A
but you can certainly find out more if you care to.

So, in your convoluted logic, Taiwanese people lost their right to protest because Chang has commited atrocities (don't tell me he has not)?

 

You've misread my post entirely.

 

Consider all of the casualties suffered by China from Japan during WWII from the early 1930s to 1945, 30 million does not seem to be an exaggerated number by all accounts. Not all of the 30 million suffered from the most brutal inhumane atrocities but where in this thread has anyone said this was the case? I can't find anyone making the claim here. And even if only a "mere" 4 million suffered in a "sick and twisted way" while others suffered in a so-called "normal" way, being fire-bombed as an innocent civilians by an invader waging aggression still isn't exactly "excusable" nor free of suffering.

 

Excellent analysis

 

you're getting WAAAAYYYY too worked up. calm down bro. the war's over. the war criminals were judged and hanged. japanese people are cool now. why are you still so angry? are you oppressed? are you suffering? are you living in a concentration camp or somehting?

it was an age of imperialism, an age of totalitarianism, an age of fascism and communism and corruption and ignorance and a dark dark brutal form of warfare, when our morality and ethics and humanity had not caught up to science. germans butchered jews. japanese butchered koreans and chinese. chinese butchered tibetans and taiwanese, russians butchered pollacks and georgians, english butchered indians, french butchered vietnamese... when might meant right, when human rights were a sham, when atrocity was a tool, when civilians were fair game, when some people were NOT people (but subhumans to be slaughtered like so much cattle), just a sh!tty time in general.

in the same way joshua / qin shihuang / genghis khan / vandals / romans / crusaders / every friggin conquering race pre-20th century sacked cities and raped and pillaged, genocided and impaled on stakes/crucifixes, beheaded babies, buried screaming/crying women alive, etc. etc. etc. WW2 was no different, with the added horror of having science being used to further the horrors of war with no accompanying ethics to restrain them.

we've come a long way since then. so for the last time, move on, get over it, and learn to stop hating?

 

I don't think it's funny at all.

I am not interested in playing game of numbers with you. All I said was, according to your own source, you can not reach the conclusion it's 4 million, not 30 million.

I was never interested in Japanese guilt. I can be mad about their lies, and I can be mad about those downplaying Japanese war crimes and helping them spread lies, for whatever odd reason (I am least interested). But, like many Chinese are, I am mad that war criminals are worshiped in a holly shrine, after they committed atrocities to Chinese people. Remind you one last time, even their ALLY, the ones created Holocaust (you loved so much to bring into this thread), called their atrocities as "disgrace of human beings".

 

You should be confused, by yourself.

I am not angry about Japanese people. I never hated anyone, including Japanese I don't know. However, I am angry that somebody tells me on a message board, that I am NOT allowed to be upset about Japanese war crimes against Chinese people, and I am NOT allowed to be upset about Japanese officials denying war crime history. I still don't get the fact, why you Sir are so upset about Chinese protests.

 

is that past tense because if I'm not mistaken, that same sh&t still goes on to this very day...

same story (maybe different ethic groups/religion,ect...) different day.

it will never stop. Welcome to reality.

 

I actually don't think they had any biological weapons. They did experiment extensively on Jews with biological weapons, and 1000 other things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilse_Koch

 

The stuff in the references you provided read more like evil acts commited by individuals rather than systematic operations in large scale such as those done by the Japanese Unit 731, no?

 

i'll give you guys a first hand account.

My great grandfather passed some stories down about some of his friends that were diplomats in korea at the time.

These guys were rounded up by the japanese and hung upside down, then boiling hot red spicy water was poured down their noses. WHY did they do this? Because they could.

i think that japanese prime minister visiting the shrine is nothing but dumb flag scum.