can somebody remove the please i dont know how that got there and it definatly does not express my mood when i saw the pictures
You will not find more barbaric method of killings than those used by the Japanese during the WWII in modern history.
You know that if you contribute some money to the tip jar you would be able to edit your posts right?
The Chinese protest would have more credibility if they would be truthful about Mao and his atrocities. DD
definately but like Russia condoming what Stalin did I dont think that will happen untill China becomes a democratic nation.
What does Mao have to do with China's protest of war crime? And what "atrocities" that you have prime knowledge that actual Chinese people are not aware of? Are you also in that "100 million" crowd?
By the same token, Jewish protests of Holocaust denial would have more credibility if Jews were truthful about their atrocities against the Palestinians?
It is a bit ironic that the same people up in arms about the Japanese enshrining war criminals have built a humongous shrine to Mao.
Did you make the similar statement in the Holocaust related threads? If no, why the hell are you doing this in the Japanese War crime thread?
They are not the same people. The ways the victims died are different too. Further, the causes are not comparable -- internal warfare vs external warfare, class struggle vs invasion/occupation.
It's not ironic to people with common sense that All Asian Countries are up in arms about the Japanese enshrining EXECUTED CLASS A WAR CRIMINALS. Lots of Chinese oppose the Mao memorial; HOWEVER, Mao was never prosecuted as war criminal. People pay visits to Mao memorial for his leadership in founding PRC, NOT for his horrible decisions in Culture Revolution or GLF. Similarily, people pay visits to Lincoln memorial for stoping the slavary (not necessary his initial goal) and keep the country united, not for all those fallen soldiers and civilian collateral demage. But hey, you can't expect everyone to have some common sense.
NewYorker, I'm not making any statement regarding the Holocaust. I was merely trying to clarify the numbers of Chinese estimated to have died during the conflict. Tens of millions of Russians died as well, but it has no bearing on the madness of the Holocaust. Keep D&D Civil.
Any atrocities showed be owned up to, I do no exonerate Israel in ANY capacity, but I do see a difference between targeting enemy combatants and innocent civilians. DD
Got under your skin, huh? What do you think that means? The Japanese were just as guilty of war crimes. Unit 731 Unit 1644 Unit 516 BTW, For observers outside of China, blaming the "The Gang of Four" is widely considered to be a scapegoating method to disassociate blame from Mao, where some of it should rest. Whoever said he needs 100 to 200 years to be properly evaluated, why does Mao get this special treatment which does not fall to Hirohito or Truman or anybody else? Everybody who is not blinded by Soviet notsalgia will freely admit that Stalin was a mass murderer and psychopath.
I'm sure many of the Chinese people protesting against the Yasukuni Shrine visits suffered under Mao and have not and have no reason to lie about Mao and his "atrocities". Looking at the wikipedia entry, I can also see why there are strong negative feelings amongst Koreans, Chinese and others concerning these visits. An except from wikipedia states that: <Begin except> The shrine enshrines and, according to Shinto beliefs, provides a permanent residence for the spirits of those who have fought on behalf of the emperor, regardless of whether they died in combat. About 1,000 of the enshrined kami were POWs convicted of some level of war crime after World War II... This was revealed to the media on April 19, 1979, and a controversy started in 1985 which continues to this day. For China, North and South Korea, and other nations that were affected by Japanese military action, the shrine is a symbol of Japanese militarism and right-wing nationalism. Liberal, socialist and communist groups in Japan also take issue with the shrine for similar reasons. Yasukuni Shrine also operates a museum on the history of Japan which some observers have criticized as presenting a revisionist interpretation. A documentary-style video shown to museum visitors portrays Japan's conquest of East Asia during the pre-World War II period as an effort to save the region from the imperial advances of Western powers. Displays deny that events such as the Nanking Massacre took place and systematically portray Japan as a victim of foreign influence, especially Western pressure. A pamphlet published by the shrine says: "War is a really tragic thing to happen, but it was necessary in order for us to protect the independence of Japan and to prosper together with our Asian neighbors." It also says that Japanese POWs executed for war crimes were "cruelly and unjustly tried" by a "sham-like tribunal of the Allied forces." Their position is based on the WWII-era argument from the Japanese government that the country had never signed the Geneva Convention, and was not a signatory of any enforcable international war crimes agreement. Therefore, in their opinion, the convictions were labels placed upon them by an organization to which they did not belong. <End of except> There have been a lot of disturbing opinions here that seem to excuse Japan's visit to Yasukuni shrine because of the PRC's own human rights violations. I simply don't accept that as valid. Imagine if the German govt had done something exactly analogous to claiming that Germans were only defending themselves and that also downplayed or denied the Holocaust. It would be as if critics complained about this hypothetical German behavior and then posters claimed that the critics have no right to complain because of Israeli human rights abuses in the occupied territories. For a non-hypothetical situation, it would be the same as excusing Ahmadinejad's Iran Holocaust cartoons because of Israeli human rights violations. It would be wrong in all cases to have that POV.
Atrocities go beyond targeting civilians or collateral damage. Atrocities is absolutely cruelty - when you round up and kill people for no other reason then their race or religion or nationality. It's one thing to blow up someone's else. It's another to walk into their home and tie them up and do horrible things to them. No one discounts that millions of Chinese suffered a fate such as this...but, it wasn't 30 million. So let's not exaggerate here. When you do stuff like that....it seems like you are trying to get more sympathy or win some sort of "we're the real victim" contest. Frankly, if a Japanese wants to take pride in their military history, well, who's to stop them from doing it? And if they want to shield their kids from knowing the truth....well, that's their choice as a soverign nation to be honest. Sad as it is...the only thing you can do it protest it. But again, those protests would be taken more seriously if they were not exaggerated. Lies will not defeat lies.
All well except no one is exaggerating. real_egal has already explained if you care to read. I don't think it's about sympathy contest.
You got to be kidding me. Since when you became an expert in deciding how many Chinese died during the war?!!!! What gives you the credibility to decide it's NOT 30 million? The only source you got - wikipedia, certainly didn't give you such information. It clearly says the number differs from 10-37 million, and yet you have the gut to come out calling Chinese liars to exaggerate?!!! For what? To get your sympathy? My god, how self-centered can one be? Chinese don't need sympathy from others, including you. They are upset that Japanese worship those executed war criminals, so they protest. As simple as that. Why does that simple motive and simple action upset you so much? They can be upset and protest without YOUR permission. Is it that difficult to grasp?!
