From my reading of the news, I don't recall any of the Asian countries objecting over honoring their dead patriots. This spin is simply wrong from what I gather. The objecting is simply because the Japanese PM is doing so at Yasukuni Shrine. From wikipedia, its says: The issue specifically is the Japanese PM officially visiting such a controversial shrine which houses people responsible for the atrocities committed by imperialist Japan in WWII and which denies Japanese accountability for their actions. If the shrine removed the "war criminals" and the revisionist literature, there'd be no objection. If the PM honored the war dead at a different venue again there'd be no objection.
You're being a bit presumptious in assuming I intentionally exaggerated. Ok, the source wasn't wikipedia - whoop-to-do-wa! And it wasn't current - well, you brought it up guy! And it was 16 casulaties instead of 16 deaths - my apologizes - I misremembered - so sue me!
I didn't say you "intentionally exaggerated", although you are welcome to fit into the frame you set up for others. I am saying with this example, you were playing loose with facts. How does that sound?
Not really. It's unfortunate Japan suffered casualties in its confrontation with Korea, but the former was provocative in the first place.
Well, I have to say...I think the textbook thing is pretty harrowing. The Japanese gov't should fix that and be more honest with it's own history. Not because of China or Korea, but as a reminder to future generations not to fall into the same traps...and as an example of the evils of nationalism. As for the Shrine...it seems so silly, but probably best if they remove at least some of the war criminals associated with the most brutal crimes - such as biological testing or genocide. I think Japan can claim they liberated a nation or two here, but they should be honest with themselves that they were trying to build an empire and be the Germany of the East. They were allies with Hitler after all. But beyond that, I think all Asians can take a book out of history and see the evils of nationalism...and that includes Chinese and Korean nationalism.
Well, "provactive" is all a matter of perspective. Japan could make the same claim about Korea. It should be noted that Korea still controls the islands...so how belligreant has Japan really been? No consider the fact that China didn't try negoiating with Tibet - it just came in. How many Tibetians died? Anyone know?
I am trying to avoid the topic of Tibet because it will seriously derail the current thread. To answer your inquiry in short: 1) Tibet was part of China before and after CCP took control of the Mainland; 1a) CCP did try to negotiate with Dalai Lama in the early to mid 1950s, only to be forced to use force when the Tibetans staged armed uprising, with the help of CIA, in opposition to CCP's demand to conform to the rest of China; 2) Because of 1), the conflict was strictly internal; 3) There is fundamental difference between the Tibetan deaths at the hands of CCP and the Chinese deaths under the Japapense invasion and occupation. In the former, the killings, while very tragic, were never done in sadistic manner. They were not for fun, either. Ruthless suppression may be, but absolutely not in the same category as those of Japanese atrocities committed in the Rape of Nanjing and Unit 731 human experimentations; 4) CCP being the fanatical radical egalitarians, "coercive egalitarians" if you will, treated everybody equally. Whether you were Zen Buddhists, Lamaist monks, Taoist pratitioners, Christians, Jews, Muslims, or just ordinary Han Chinese, you suffered the same if you were against the PRC rulings. To single out Tibetans only is misguided at best, disgenuous at worst; 5) While both sides of the conflict "played" the number games on the Tibetan deaths -- CCP under-reporting and Tibetans-in-Exile over-exaggerating -- the concensus is that the actual number lies somewhere in between, but definitely closer to CCP's estimation.
New Yorker, I am applauding this post from you. In retrospect, I think many agreed with those 3 points from you, from the very beginning, including myself. If you had been open with your true position (the one in quote now), this thread might have been moved 3rd page on D&D with 3 pages of content. To reiterate, I absolutely agree that 1. Japan can not go on with rewriting history to white-wash past war crimes, even just for their own sake. We all have to face history honestly, especially for those dark pages, to prevent such tragedy in the future. 2. Japan should move at least those convicted A-class war criminals out, to show that they are truly re-examine those war crimes, and draw a line to seperate themselves to such past. They could also show the rest of the world, that Japanese as a whole, are NOT willing to be hijacked by some extreme right wings, by honoring convicted war criminals. 3. A slight revision from your post, all PEOPLE should take the lesson from history, and ANY extremism is evil. Patriotism and nationalism, when played to an extend, it will be easily manipulated by extremists. The result can be catastrophic.
It is you who brought race into our discussion when you posted a yes or no question about my ethnicity. It is unfair for me to ask about your ethnic background after you question mine? Poor English does not always translate into people from other country. I went through the HISD school system and I have seen quite a few native born Americans with worst writing style than mine. What particular words or phrases I used that you considered being mainland China style?
Well, if you go back further in history you'd find that Tibet was part of China. Also, before China went in, Indians already went in secretly. So it was not really unprovoked.
Yeah, don't ask him that. I asked at least twice and he refuse to answer. He knows his view is biased because of his background and he is ashamed to admit it.
I think everyone's view is biased to a certain degree given one's background. I just think it a fair game for me to ask about his background since he questioned mine.
What does that mean. Really. I have no idea what you're talking about. If you think I have some sort of responsibility to read every post here and give my opinion about how nice, or nasty, someone is, let me clue you in... I'm not a mod. I'm just trying to keep the forum around. I have a sense of humor. If I think I'm funny, it's good enough for me. If someone doesn't "get," whatever humor I'm putting out, it's a bummer, dude!! Keep D&D Civil.
Great post. I think maybe we could move on to another topic, don't you think? Someone start a thread about Taiwan! Keep D&D Civil.
All Asian nations should form a commission and hash out an agreed account of what happened during WW2. The Pacific Rim is making a lot of money with a stable Sino-Japanese relationship. This would defuse the growing rivalry between the two peoples.
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that, but I would hope that the other nations involved in the conflict in the region would be invited, as well. Actually, it would be an excellent excuse for all those nations to get together and talk... and talk about something they should really be able to resolve, for once. A good idea! Keep D&D Civil.
The thing is he want to be viewed as neutral so he wants to hide his background. I think it is a disgrace. You know, when I first ask about his background, Deckerd and maybe some other posters thought I mistakenly "labeled" him as someone who he is not.
Yeah, you have to convince Japanese people to elect a PM who does NOT believe that war was not unjust and who does believe that 14 were actually war criminals. Otherwise, I just don't see how Japan can meet the other countries on that issue.
1) nope 2) nope 3) if that is what they want, if they want to reunify, that is okay too. Sorry to be so hard to pigeonhole.
