Japanese protest nuclear tests only because they were the victims of the A-bombs. Do they oppose the aggressive wars they themselves waged on their Asian neighbours? Japan's dominant Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) which has ruled Japan for nearly fifty years has never frankly acknowledged its war guilt and atrocities. Instead, many Japanese LDP members of parliament, government officials, academics, and revisionist film makers have aligned themselves with hardcore militarists and extreme nationalists in claiming that Japan's "intervention" in China was necessary to "liberate" the Chinese from exploitation by Western colonial interests. The only thing they genuinely regret is their defeat. There are indeed pacifists in Japan who are truly remorseful and actively call for the government to face up to extraordinary wrong doings in WWII. But their voice can hardly be heard in the main stream media, rather, they and their family members are frequently the recipients of intimidation and death threats from the powerful ultranationalist mafia, and their personal belongings the properties are often the targets of sabotge. It's either extremely ignorant or deliberately obtuse to suggest Japan as a whole has "demonstrated enough consciousness" such that they can be fully trusted. Hitler had the tremendous support in the Nazi Germany when he waged the ethnic cleansing and genocide on the European Jews. The Germans were brainwashed to believe that was the right thing to do. Do you have a problem with that?
Does Germany honor Hitler. Does the US honor Bendict Arnold ? au contre, Japan has been a nuclear threat to the world. http://www.ratical.org/radiation/NGP/JapansPluto.html .....As a result of mounting public opposition, continuing technical problems, high costs, and the yet unsolved dilemma of waste disposal, the worldwide nuclear industry is in decline. One notable exception is Japan, which is expanding its nuclear program by pursuing an ambitious plutonium-based energy policy. ......to that end, the Japanese program will involve shipping massive amounts of plutonium across the world's oceans and result in the production of more of that deadly substance than currently exists in the combined U.S. and Soviet nuclear arsenals. ....
If you look at Japan since the end of the war, it has been an advocate for peace around the world. Now, compare Japan with a country such as China, which has waged war with India, South Korea, and Vietnam, as well as has invaded Tibet. Futhermore, China has intimidated countries in the region, most recently over the Spratly Islands, and as well as initimidates Taiwan on a frequent basis. It's building up it's arms...it bloodily put down a peaceful demonstration of students (maybe you forgot that), and it prosecutes religious groups and throws people in jail for any kind of criticism. Now, considering this...I think it's hilarious for anyone in China to question Japan as a peaceful nation. Sure, Japan's history wasn't peaceful, but today, modern Japan is up there with Swiitzerland and New Zealand as peaceful countries.
You are having a twisted logic from page 1 to current page 15. YOu were claiming that Japan is the most peaceful country, and I believe you mean for all people on earth, not just yourself, otherwise, you shouldn't be arguing with anyone. But all of a sudden, you again disqualify people in China even to question? How is it hilarious people in China to question? Because chinese low life has no right to question some superior specis like you? What about people outside of China, are they allowed to question? What if those people are ethnic Chinese? I guess they disqualify as well. What about Koreans? I guess as long as they obey your view, they can say something, but definitely not question. What country waged most wars? The country you are in, Sir. Isn't that even more hilarious, applying your logic, that someone like you to decide who even has the right to question "most peaceful country"? In case, you failed your history class or intentionally lie about what you knew. Ask Indian people, who started that war. Ask Koreans whether Chinese ever fought in South Korea. Invading Tibet? How could a country invade itself? Check your wikipedia again. Intimidating neighbours? Who exactly? How? Chinese never told anyone, either you are with us or against us. Oh no, the superior master has spoken, that China is not allowed to build up military, while Japan as the "most peaceful country" can build up its military with more budgets, despte the fact its population is only a fraction of China, despite the fact that their own constitution forbids such built up. But hey, who cares. You sir, just signed the permission for them to do whatever they want to or you want. You have spoken, people in China don't even have the right to question. Thank God it's just a BBS.
They're peaceful because they're living off our dime. With our defense in their place, they're practically an extension of US foreign policy. Note the troops sent in the Second Iraq War. Note the huge percentage of the bill paid by Japan for the First. Their actions and approval have mostly been lockstep with ours in every major foreign policy decision since occupation has begun. You also have to consider the same group who demands Japanese Prime Ministers to visit that shrine, old conservative right wingers, are also itching to scrap the non-proliferation provision in their Constitution and increase the scope of their Japanese Defense Forces. They sure as hell aren't peaceful, yet their influence is strong enough to start this controversy.
Well let's see...China invaded India and took land from them by force. China invade Tibet - then a separate country, and subjagated those people. Just because China thinks it owns Tibet, doesn't mean that it's the case. Iraq though it owned Kuwait...hey, well, maybe someday China will think it owns Japan, maybe it has a right to take that over too???? Chinese forces did fight in the Korean war - that's well documented. China has intimidated nations from Indonesia, India, Tibet (which is an occupied terrority), the Phillipines, , Thailand, and many more. China is generally ruled as the Bully of Asia. Don't you know about the Spartly's??? It amazing me that you don't have a position on that. You should know your own geopolitics...I man, how can an American know about the Spratly's but not a Chinese guy....??? So much for Chinese education superiority!
Israel lives of our dime far more then Japan - and Israel is not peaceful. Every country has it's spectrum of politics...Japan is no different...but when you judge Japan in the last fifty years from a geopolitics standpoint, they have a stellar record...and they deserve a great deal of credit for that. I say that Japan has paid it's dues.
Your arrogance is alarming. Much of what you accused of China is old topic here. I have little interest in repeating here. But it doesn't mean you are right. China threathened other nations on Spartly no more than Japan threathen China (and Taiwan) on Diaoyu.
Right, China can threaten other nations because if it were not them, then it would be the Japanese. I'm glad you won't repeat a dislusional reality anymore. It was getting tiring to see the China is right, the rest of the world wrong. Wnes talked about brainwashing - he should go to China for a bit. It's ridiculous what the gov't does to minds there.
Geopolitics? What's all the fuss in all those Asian countries was complaining about? Paid his due? Let's not even debate that. Let's debate how and why should 50 years of relative peace under US millitary umbralla warrant the rightfulness of official visit to the shrine that enshrine war criminals and deny war crimes.
Where did you read that? I expect you to at least have basic English reading ability if anything. Brainwashing? Geez, I've had enough brainwashing by American education and media than I care to admit to. Take your arrogance elsewhere. Secondly, despite of what you and Lil make it out to be, this thread is not all about China or China vs Japan. Frankly, even -- let's back up by a mile - if all that you accused of China were right, it doesn't lend one bit of righteousness to Japanese shrine visit.
Not exactly. The boundary between India and China had been in dispute for quite some time. After India gained independence and the PRC was declared, the border between the two countries was not agreed upon. India claimed lands based solely on lines Britain drew on a map which Britain nor India ever exercized control over and which China (ROC and PRC) never recognized. Before the 1962 war, both sides had already been massing troops and there had been a lot of low level skirmishes. When India decided to forward deploy troops to lay claim to lands disputed by China, they were pushed back and defeated. It isn't really accurate or fair to say that China invaded India and took land from them by force since by all accounts it is far from the case that the land was rightfully India's in the first place. Tibet was not a recognized as a separate country at the time the PLA invaded and claimed it as part of China. Before the Qing dynasty fell it was recognized to be Chinese territory by the world at large. After it fell, no Chinese govt nor foreign govt recognized Tibet as an indepedent country.l This was not true of Kuwait when Iraq invaded it nor obviously Japan. The best analogy would be Somalia/Somaliland. No one recognizes Somaliland and if the central govt of Somalia laid claim to it and tried to exert control over it, it would likewise not be considered as a invasion of a separate country. It doesn't mean Somaliland nor Tibet ought not be independent but it simply means that in both cases it is incorrect to say it was an invasion of an independent country. True, but it could hardly be considered an act of aggression rather than helping an ally (as well as itself) to survive and exist. China hasn't been Switzerland in terms of being neutral and perfectly peaceful, nor has it been some kind of madman aggressor a-la Nazi Germany or Imperialist Japan either. For its size and interests, since WWII, it can certainly be said that it has been less aggressive than the USA and been involved in far less conflicts. It has flexed its muscles at times over disputes but far less so than its military capability and power would allow. So no it isn't super peaceful nor has it been overly aggressive either in comparison to say the USA itself.
Of course I know Chinese geopolitics. As r35352 corrected you case by case, most of your accusation was false. Your original post said that "China invaded South Korea", and my reply to you was "Ask Koreans when did Chinese fight in South Korea". As for the accusation that China is the bully of Aisa is really funny. Some said so for whatever agendas, doesn't make it so. What foreign land did Chinese take? Please check with your Indian colleagues frist, before you talk about India vs. China. Please find yourself a piece of evident, that Tibet was recognized as an independant country, before you throw Tibet out randomly in any China related thread. Intimidating other Asian countries, how and when? Did China threaten to take land from Indonesia, India, the Phillipines, Thailand, and many more? Or threaten to kill their people? What exact intimidation you were talking about? Your arrogance and ignorance really get the best of you. You randomly threw out accusations backed up by your own imagination. Internet is your best tool, you can dispute yourself completely, from most WESTERN source. And you are the one complaining about brain wash?
Anyway, getting back on topic... As I mentioned before, Yasukuni Shrine enshrines many top level Japanese leaders who were responsible for a great many atrocities in WWII both in China, Korea, Phillipines and elsewhere. Descriptions within the shrine venerate these war criminals and downplay or outright deny Japanese atrocities and accountability for its war of aggression. It is pure common sense to me that for a Japanese PM to make public visits to such a shrine is nothing more than an act of defiance and a covert way of saying he agrees with the stance of the shrine. Therefore if the PM insists on visiting, I don't see why people find it so strange that it would be unsettling and upsetting. If every year the Chancellor of Germany visited some neo-Nazi masoleum that enshrine and venerated Hitler, Mengele, Goebbels, etc and claimed Germany was only "defending itself" somehow I think that people would understand why it would be inappropriate and unsettling if that happenend. Yet for some strange reason people don't feel this way about the Yakusuni Shrine visits. Just because China doesn't have a great human rights record doesn't mean these visits are appropriate no more than a German chancellor should visit a neo-Nazi shrine becasuse of Israel's human rights abuses in the Middle East. Many of the victims of Japanese atrocities died years before Mao took power in China and none of them had any responsibility for Mao's crimes (just like few Holocaust victims have anything to do with Israel's crimes). Furthermore many of the victims were not Chinese. But finally it is completely unrelated and irrelevant. The victims of Japanese atrocities deserve as much respect as the victims of the Holocaust and any other atrocity. To justify the shrine visits is nothing more than an intentional desecration of their memory but people are free to do that if they insist (but don't expect people to respect you as a human being when you do that).
I'm not denying there are some Taiwanese who are sympathetic towards Japan's right wing views but from my understanding that is a very small minority. Most Taiwanese that I am aware of are either against the Japanese right wing or are at most apathatic about the issue. Also many Taiwanese were conscripted in the Japanese army during WWII like Koreans and didn't voluntarily serve, not to forget that many Taiwanese women also were forced to be comfort women.
To be fair to the Japanese Japan's nuclear program is peaceful and geared towards energy production since Japan has almost no natural energy sources.
China invaded far deeper into India then the disputed territory, and took land in order to complete a road. And everyone knows what China did to Tibet. They just took it. The Tibetian culture is nearly wiped out. I mean, the Tibetians are fleeing the country? That's oppressing and very aggressive! China was very active in the Korean war - that everyone knows again. Helping an ally out? Sure...but it was still involved in trying to wipe out South Korea or rather the democratic Koreans. Still and act of aggression. Taiwan? C'mon, CHina fires missles over them all the time. And threathen to attack Taiwan if it suggests it's independent. And you still haven't addressed the Spratly Islands. Also, China has land disputes with Japan, taking some of their islands. China is a very belligerent war pumping nation right now...and the rest of Asia is scared.
I will agree somewhat with New Yorker on PRC aggression towards Taiwan and aggressive occupation, I would say subjugation, Tibet but that still doesn't make it any more morally right for the Japanese to honor war criminals and engage in revisionist history. Also that still ignores the fact that this isn't just a dispute between Japan and the PRC but between Japan and the rest of the peoples who were occupied by the Imperial Army's.
But don't you think it's a shady line when these war criminals were also people who were leaders of the country and did other things besides oversee a war?
So was Hitler and the gang. Really, if you were so passionate in defending them, with every single logic you applied in this thread, I may still disagree with you, but will respect you a lot more.
